I'm not disputing the article. Discrimination happens. Humans are human.
But let's not lose sight or minimize that women are (currently and historically) discriminated against on a scale that dwarfs this - in hiring, salary, and society at large.
But let's not lose sight or minimize that women are (currently and historically) discriminated against on a scale that dwarfs this - in hiring, salary, and society at large.
Even historically speaking, that's a stretch. For a long period of human history, survival meant being able to plow fields, wrangle horses, chop down trees, hunt wooly mammoths, fight lions and all the other things that my ancestors would be ashamed of me for not being able to do. Men were expected to, and did, protect and provide for women because most men find those tasks easier than most women. Not even the hardest feminist would call that protection "discriminatory". It's only been relatively recently, on a grand scale, that most women could perform the tasks that needed to be performed to survive. More or less as soon as that happened, most of civilization became egalitarian almost overnight. There was some pushback in the 70's but as Bill Maher pointed out "we couldn't understand what you were rebelling against! Men in my father's day used to say 'I'll be damned if any wife of mine ever has to go to work!'"
But there are many (typically men's rights orgs) who seize on stories like this to say that 'enough is enough and truly it is us men who are being marginalized [in ways beyond what the article says]' and thats not at all true.
Yeah, historically men were forced to work 12 hours in coal mines, oil rigs, garbage dumps, forests, in deep seas with next to nothing safety equipment and with no regulations while women were forced to stay in their homes with their children. Where can I sign up for this kind of discrimination?
That is why I was calling for a sense of perspective in advance.
It just doesn't really add anything to the current topic.
There are a lot more people arguing that men suffer almost equally in discrimination or women have it better, then I had expected.
All of them by men.
> All of them by men.
You are also a man, and I'm sure you're aware that there are much stronger cultural narratives around men rescuing women than the other way around.
A bit of introspection is needed here.
Happy International Men's Day.
This is the same intolerant gatekeeping that I loathe in the feminist camp. Everyone has a voice, anyone can participate, no one-person gets to define "the" problem, let alone label/dehumanize people as being problems.
Well of course, this is not a dictatorship and I'm not a dictator. I'm stating my opinion on a forum.
In the same way flat-Earthers have no place teaching astronomy, someone who believes the pay gap is women getting paid less for the same work has no place teaching sociology. That is intolerant, but so it should be.
Gatekeeping is inevitable and necessary, the problem is that the wrong people currently hold the keys. You can find yourself locked out for stating that the wage gap is one side of a compromise, or that men get harsher criminal punishments (for the same crimes), or that female-perpetrated sexual abuse has been grossly undercounted (my personal grievance). If we want to confront these issues, then the existing gatekeepers need to be replaced, not tolerated.
The "conversation", which I assume to be the societal conversation i.e. marketplace of ideas is explicitly a free, and public one.