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Comment by capableweb | Hacker News Reader

> Under current UK laws, drivers are banned from texting or making a phone call (other than in an emergency) while using a handheld device. From 2022, drivers will not be allowed to take photos or videos, scroll through playlists or play games on their phones when driving.

Incredible that the lawmakers were stupid enough last time to ban not phone usage in general, but just texting and making a call. And now they are repeating the same mistake by specifying that it's illegal to scroll through playlists or play games? Just ban phone usage nonstop already like other, sane countries. Make an exception for navigational purposes, and hopefully we can have fewer deaths because of distracted driving.

Or even better, create a law that outlaws being distracted by anything while driving, requiring drivers to stop if they are distracted.

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Incredible that the lawmakers were stupid enough last time to ban not phone usage in general

This was not stupidity. It's an example of specific, well-scoped lawmaking, which is exactly the sort of thing we should welcome. It's targeted specifically at the use of communication devices while driving, provides appropriate exemptions, and seems like an entirely appropriate step given the nature of the mobile device market in 2003. Now the regulations are being tightened further, again in a reasonable way, to deal with the problems that now exist.

And now they are repeating the same mistake by specifying that it's illegal to scroll through playlists or play games

This is not what is happening, and is clearly an example of the sort of thing that will be banned under a more general rule of "don't use a mobile device while driving".

Just ban phone usage nonstop already like other, sane countries. Make an exception for navigational purposes, and hopefully we can have fewer deaths because of distracted driving.

This is exactly what is happening, along with additional clarifications on what counts as driving (e.g. being stopped at traffic lights is still driving) and ensuring that commonly-used, safe features (for example, making a contactless payment at a toll booth) are not caught by the regulations.

> Just ban phone usage nonstop already like other, sane countries.

Can you give a specific example? There are only a few countries with safer roads (e.g. Norway, Sweden, Switzerland depending how you measure) and I know that Norway has less restrictive laws and Sweden has almost none except for egregious behaviour like texting (last time I checked.)

The Netherlands bans all holding of mobile phones, enabled or not. Pressing something like "alternative route" is allowed (in the same sense as operating the radio) but only when the device is firmly attached to the car like in a mount.

Mostly it's the holding of an mobile electronic device that's explicitly forbidden. Using it excessively is covered by the common sense article of traffic laws which just tells you not to do dangerous things.

The law has basically been extended to cover possibly non-dangerous holding of mobile phones to lighten the burden of proof.

Since early 2018 it’s forbidden to use a phone while driving in Sweden. https://www.trafikverket.se/resa-och-trafik/trafiksakerhet/D...

Thanks for the link. This seems to be a ban on holding a phone. (As in the UK already https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law)

-In Norway, the law states that if you are to use your phone in a moving motor vehicle, it needs to be installed in an approved handsfree holder, with the screen as close to the driver's normal field of view as possible. No hand-held use is allowed.

If so installed, you may use it to initiate and accept calls.

You may also use your phone for navigation, entertainment &c provided the phone is configured for whatever purpose while the vehicle is stationary or using either voice commands or vehicle-integrated controls.

You may NOT touch any phone buttons or touch screens for any other purpose than dialing a number or answering a call while the vehicle is moving.

In Denmark if you pull to the side of the road and you then send a text you can be fined US$250 and get 1 count on your license (above 3 means they take your license). Using a phone is strictly forbidden at any time you are "part of the traffic". So either the phone has to be secured to the car somehow (not hand-held that is) or you cannot in any way be part of the traffic. It is rare but people do get fined for this from time to time.

Just to clarify: I have my phone mounted in a holder attached to my window.

I can basically do whatever I want with it as long as it stays in the holder. If I remove it and put it away without taking my eyes of the road, the penalty is as described above. If I were to type this comment on it while mounted and still payed attention to trafic, no penalty.

And yet I still see a massive number of people with their phone to their ear.

Another example: Switzerland forbids in hand mobile phone usage as well.

> https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

> https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/mobile-phone-laws/

> It’s illegal to hold a phone or sat nav while driving or riding a motorcycle.

> the police can charge you for driving without due care and attention or careless driving.

Everyone already thought it was illegal, inluding the governments own website and the highway code.

This seems to be a tough new law (we are tough on crime, your taxes hard at work) designed to make the current law the law.

Note: The article and other similar articles are all reguritations of the press release on the matter. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/any-use-of-hand-held-mobi...

This is one of those typical HN “solutions” that seem good on the surface but fail in the real world.

Remember if a driver chooses to challenge a ticket, the state needs to prove proof. Texting and calls are easy to prove. Having a phone in your hand is easy to prove.

Yours is another one of those typical HN rebutes.

Just because a solution isn't perfect doesn't mean it wouldn't help.

My hurdle isn’t “perfect” it’s “executable”. I’ve worked in strategy roles long enough to know that people who haven’t executed are kinda useless.

It's avoiding banning looking at CityMapper, Google Maps, etc.

(And perhaps even poking 'next track' button which is not that different to the same on the dashboard's cassette player.)

The prose you quoted is just the paper's explanation, I assume the 'all in-hand use' from the title is closer to what will be in the actual bill.

> I assume the 'all in-hand use' from the title is closer to what will be in the actual bill

I sure hope so, but considering the track record, I'm avoiding to assume anything.

I mean, phones were very very different when the law went into place.

I don't think it's quite fair to be totally harsh on the legislators not predicting modern smartphone complexity.

If you ban it completely you'd also ban using GPS/Maps/Sat Nav apps.

> I mean, phones were very very different when the law went into place.

I don't know exactly when the previous law came into effect, but I remember the Nokia 3310 (released 2000) had games on it already.

> If you ban it completely you'd also ban using GPS/Maps/Sat Nav apps.

Yeah, hence I wrote about excepting navigational purposes in my comment.

Isn't that the point? Navigation software has audio cues for turns that let the driver keep his eyes on the road.

If you need to read a map, pull over, stop the vehicle, and read the map.

> Navigation software has audio cues for turns that let the driver keep his eyes on the road

Considering lots of people place their phone/nav device on the windshield and block enough sight to hide a schoolbus in their direct view I don't think this actually matters all that much.

No it’s absolutely fine. I have an iPhone with a basic Bluetooth connection to the car. I have a stalk for audio control and I use Siri to tell it to do stuff. The audio is entirely hands free. You just get in the car and it works. You don’t need to touch or handle it for navigation either.

iOS also switches into driving focus mode which turns all the other distractions off: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208090

The legislation is perfectly good.

>and I use Siri to tell it to do stuff.

Using Siri is more dangerous than texting. The below linked research (and others) found that using Siri raises the reaction time 36%. That is 1% worse than texting! For comparison, driving at the drink-drive limit (UK) is 12%. So you are doing yourself a big disservice by using Siri and thinking you are safe(r).

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-cam...

I don’t use it when I’m actually driving. Before to set the destination.

If you're not actively driving, you might as well just hold the device in your hand?

“Hey siri navigate home”

Pretty simple.

Yes, as long as it works for your very specific personal preference!

  >Or even better, create a law that outlaws being distracted by anything while driving, requiring drivers to stop if they are distracted.

Exactly! Why are companies allowed to put up those digital billboards, which are appearing everywhere in cities at the moment? When they are literally designed to distract drivers.

One particularly notable one near where I live spans busy 4-lane junction. Because what drivers negotiating that junction really need to aid their concentration is to have ginormous screen displaying a sexy model in his or her underwear emblazoned right across the highway.

Another one near me is close to a rugby club and plays video clips of the team in action. Again, no other purpose than to grab the attention of passing motorists. Why are these not banned also?

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