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Comment by marginalia_nu | Hacker News Reader

I tried to delete my Spotify account (in Sweden). Not just cancel, but delete because they inexplicably put my profile on the Internet in full display and I was not even a little bit okay with that.

I think 7 different "yes I'm really sure, yes despite the sad violin music and yes despite the images of sad puppies", a support ticket, several emails going back and forth confirming I'm really sure, and then a few more forms assuring I'm absolutely sure I want to do this.

I don't... know what they think they are accomplishing with this obstacle course. If anything this nonsense makes me want to remove the account even more. If it was just a button I might have come back later, but they can rest assured they will never see me again after that nonsense.

If that means listening to gramophones for the rest of my life, so be it.

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I think the general idea is that if they make it difficult enough, some people might just decide that it's not worth canceling. I'm sure there's some metric that says most people canceling a subscription are unlikely to resubscribe, so making it difficult to do so probably increases the likelihood of keeping you by some small percentage, offsetting your likelihood of coming back.

The NY Times is a great and slimy example of this. Canceling the subscription requires a phone call or online chatbot, which make a people less likely to cancel. When you do try to cancel, they offer you a deal to stay. You have to reject that deal to finally cancel your subscription. While this is clearly a bad customer experience, I can almost guarantee that it increases their retention rates.

Ultimately, a business is hurt a lot less by giving a poor experience to someone already canceling their subscription.

I think a lot of businesses greatly overvalue behavioral economics as a means to control people. Nudging doesn't seem to work nearly as well as it's "supposed" to when implemented in real world scenarios. Heck, even in a laboratory setting the effects are honestly pretty sketchy.

And that doesn't even factor in disgruntled ex-customers going around telling everyone they meet about their experiences.

I hate so many companies just because of these “make it difficult” policies… it’s just disgusting. NYT did it to me as well, they will never see a penny from me again. Economist? It was just clicking around in the site! I unsubscribed and resubed from them multiple times and am a happy subscriber right now as well!

I was fortunate enough to subscribe to the Times through the Apple Subscription platform. Only took me one click to unsubscribe.

Thats changed then - several years ago they gave me a right dance involving phone calls and emails. Lost me as a customer for good.

I think anybody’s mileage might vary in these situations. I’m aware of once case with a German publication where I had to call to unsubscribe (and was told to send physical mail!!!) and some other person could just cancel their contract per email… But I like the publication too much to name them :-)

I'm sure it improves retention, but it also negatively affects their subscription rate (probably not as much or they wouldn't do it). The primary reason that I won't subscribe to the NYT is their cancelation policy. Barriers to exit are barriers to entry.

>probably not as much or they wouldn't do it

Bold of you to assume these companies are rational actors

I'm sure their metrics are right overall.

In my case, however, they were wrong: I wanted to pause The Economist as we had a baby and I wasn't going to read a weekly newspaper for a bit... or anything but try to get an infant to survive and try to get some sleep :P

They have a particularly dark pattern where it APPEARS they have an online one-click cancel; they make you go through the whole rigamarole of Yes I'm sure / No I don't want a deal; and only then they send you to an agent, who tries to chat you up about your neighbourhood and build a bond suggest helpful tips to make time to read and generally talk about anything except cancelling your sub.

As a result, my blood is filled with dark seeping hate for The Economist, and what was going to be a 3-month pause is now a life-long mission to dissuade everybody I can from sending them a penny - same as with Goodlife fitness :D.

> Canceling the subscription requires a phone call or online chatbot,

This is a reason I subscribe to thinks using Apple's IAP if I have a choice (eg. equal price). the app gui is great.

The UK Times did the same thing to me, except I had to call at 2am my time (no 24-hour service) in order to sit on hold and then get the "are you aware of all the features?/we can give you a special deal" pitch some poor woman with a cough had to read.

This is a separate problem from that. It's really easy to cancel a Spotify subscription. It's nearly impossible to get your (free) account deleted, though. This is largely because early-stage Spotify delegated account management by allowing people to create accounts in Facebook and Google. Pokemon Go had this issue, too, with a bunch of people opting to create accounts through Google since it was the easiest way if you were using an Android device, but then it became literally impossible for the first two years of the game's existence to extricate the account from Google and make it native to Niantic's own databases or link it to a different Google account.

It's just something these startups don't even think about when rushing to market. What happens when someone changes or gets rid of their Facebook account?

> they inexplicably put my profile on the Internet in full display

Do you mean this page?

https://open.spotify.com/user/daniel

That data is also visible to anyone in the app, and you can mark playlists as private.

See, if they hadn't had such an annoying deletion process, I might have come back after learning that. But I won't. I will never.

I suspect from personal experience that companies underestimate how much business they are truly losing due to spite alone.

Send an email mentioning you want to delete your accounts and all your personal information from their system, according to GDPR. They have 30 days to comply.

A non EU resident doing bussiness with a non EU company has no protections under GDPR. Even if you are an EU resident, the scope of GDPR's extra judicial reach is not entirely clear. Merely accessing a foreign site as an EU resident does not subject it to GDPR. The site needs be actively targeting the EU in some way.

Spotify is a Swedish company.

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