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Comment by beardyw | Hacker News Reader

Not sure what "ethnically divided" is refering to? It was the part which I found most puzzling.

>It is not the first time the public in the ethnically divided country, which is plagued by tribal separatist movements in the regions of Scotland and Northern Ireland

What's unclear? Yesteryear's elites drew lines on maps dividing or trapping people who don't look or think like them, and today's elites, sitting in distant enclaves, expect economic productivity and quiet passivity from their thralls. Now those people want self-determination!

Am I talking about Kurds or the Scottish?

I know we Scots on the whole are probably a little more attractive than our friends down South but "people who don't look like them" is perhaps a little too much a stretch here? :-)

How about "people who don't sound like them"?

It's an oversimplification, but to an otherwise uninterested African observer, everyone in the UK probably looks and sounds alike. How can they express such vehemence over such small differences?! Savages!!

The Scots have never voted for the government that has been elected for most of the last 50 year. Boris Johnson is such a corrupt buffoon that the independence movement doesn't have to lift a finger to bolster support.

I am with you (particularly re Boris) but didn't we overwhelmingly vote Labour in '97. I suppose arguably that was partly due to the promise of getting a devolved parliament

The point was that for all intents and purposes the ruling elite (who would have been responsible for drawing said lines) would be in appearance virtually indistinguishable[0] from their subjects living in any of the component parts of the UK. You're in agreement, basically :)

[0] - other than the bit about us being much handsomer in Scotland, of course ;-)

Ahh, not so! I've been in contact with my hypothetical African colonialist-scientist, and after reading about the successes of Belgian phrenology in the 30s he's suggested that hypothetical African science might best isolate the "Scottish" from "British" via examination of tooth decay!!

While decades of Irn Bru consumption and a diet rich in Highland Toffee has caused no end of dental problems, I'll have you know my remaining tooth is in fine condition.

I'm sorry to say that the hypothetical African colonialist-scientist has examined your dental records and pronounced you British :(

Maybe he can be convinced by a tap water sample?

I reluctantly accept my assigned ethnicity, though I reserve the right to be very bitter and over-use the cry-laugh emoji sarcastically on social media … hey maybe I am British after all :-)

I think thats the point the article is an oversimplification to the point of absurdity

> people who don't look or think like them

Thats unfair the Scottish aren't that ugly.

Exactly, the Scottish don't look like the English!

Just to show this phrase in context:

> It is not the first time the public in the ethnically divided country, which is plagued by tribal separatist movements in the regions of Scotland and Northern Ireland, is being fleeced by its politicians

So I think this is parodying the way the UK (and the "developed" world in general) often talk about current events in South and Central America or Africa - being very dismissive, usually boiling complex conflicts down to simple tribalism and painting the country in broad, inaccurate strokes.

I suppose you could maaaybe talk about Scots, English, Irish and Welsh as separate "ethnicities" but as someone who identifies as one of those, I would describe them as "nationalities". That is based purely on gut-feel though, maybe I'm just squeamish about drawing hard lines and bringing potentially charged terms like "ethnicity" into some discussions.

The violent suppression of minority languages and religions would count as "ethnic cleansing" in a 21st century perspective, but the UK (and for that matter France etc) did it before it became really unpopular. The use of the Irish language is still a bit of a flashpoint in NI.

I guess you’re right, come to think of it things like Highland Clearances might be thought of the same way. But about “ethnicity” I just think that right now if you walked up to people in the street in Edinburgh, London, Cardiff or Befast asking about their ethnicity I reckon you’re more likely to get a mix of skin colour or religion or something than nationality as a response. And it would be fuzzy and mixed enough that you wouldn’t be able to point out the various ethnic lines if this were somehow plotted on a map.

So ethnically diverse? Definitely. Ethnically divided? Eh I’m not so sure.

> bringing potentially charged terms like "ethnicity" into some discussions.

But as you say, I think this is the point of the article isn't it? People in the west are squeamish about using those terms in their own backyard but are often much less squeamish about using those terms when talking about places far away.

The Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English have clearly defined ethnicities. You can tell them apart just by their reaction to Oasis's "Wonderwall".

But at the same time indistinguishable by their reaction to Neil Diamond's "Sweet Caroline".

Imagine the US was arming and funding the Kurdish in Syria to oppose the Assad regime. But instead of the Kurds they're funding the Irish Protestants and instead of the Assad regime it was the United Kingdom and instead of the US, it was... no wait, still the US. That's the context of the "ethnically divided".

Some US representatives were funding the Irish Catholic side in the troubles. I wonder where all those Armalite rifles came from.

(The explosives meanwhile came from Libya; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57488196 it is ludicrous to sue post-Ghadaffi Libya about it, though)

The UK is four countries sellotaped together (hence the 'U' bit). Maybe more, depending on how you feel about Cornwall. This has often caused trouble, and two of them may plausibly leave in the next decade or so.

I believe this part was what that pertained to:

> tribal separatist movements in the regions of Scotland and Northern Ireland

Ah, thanks, I see. But they are already separate countries, not regions. It's a state divided into countries already, which in itself recognises that ethnic diversity.

Depends a bit how you define country. Scotland wasn't able to stay in the EU for example. A country would be able to do that, I think.

Plenty of federal and quasi-federal countries have tensions between their constituent states, and separatist movements. The UK isn't a proper federal system, of course, but much the same principle applies.

It's borrowing the language typically used in the media to describe Middle Eastern ethnic conflicts to a European ethnic conflict. The same way it describes the U.K. as an "Oil Rich Kingdom" (which it is, of course).

Administratively, Scotland is less of a country than, say, the British Virgin Islands. While it has a Parliament and separate legal system the list of independent competences is much smaller.

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