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Comment by orforforof | Hacker News Reader

I used to ride a motorcycle, now I have an ebike. They seem equally safe to me, which is to say neither are safe at all if there are other people on the road. The only solution is extremely defensive driving/riding, assume no one (including pedestrians) can see you. This attitude has been embedded deeply in the motorcycle culture and is the best way to all-around responsible riders -- and it needs to be propagated to ebike riders. I don't think it's about having manners, really. Also, sound awareness is a myth propagated by Harley riders.

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>Also, sound awareness is a myth propagated by Harley riders.

This pisses me off so much. I know harley riders that have straight pipes and ride around with ear plugs in to keep from going deaf. Anyone caught over the legal noise limit should have their ride confiscated. It's asshole behavior masquerading as 'safety'.

The only saving grace is at least they know the word 'safety'. I've ridden with such guys too and yes they are assholes, but notably they espouse the same defensive riding opinions of most riders, and they're still alive. That's the key in my opinion, being safe/responsible is not the same as being polite, and I think this gets lost when people focus only on (e)bikers needing to learn good manners and be nice to other road users. (One should do both of course.)

> assume no one (including pedestrians) can see you

Exactly. I'm in the same situation. I used to ride a motorcycle (that I still own but almost never use now) and am on an ebike every day.

It's not about "assuming" no on "can" see you: it's that nobody does see you, and nobody cares.

It's also the fact that people don't think about your speed or your ability to slow down fast -- they only care about your general volume. People will be more careful around a big parked truck than when faced with a small barrel rolling down a hill at full speed.

The way to stay alive is to be able to predict what everyone is about to do. I think I have become quite good at this, although one is always learning.

I find the e-bike that the article talks about (S-pedelec) to be the peak of unsafeness for two wheeled vehicles. A colleague had one and let me try it - I quickly noped out.

He's doing 40mph in traffic with his bike shorts and a flimsy helmet. The power to weight ratio also gives him enormous acceleration, so he can jump from the red lights in front of everyone. Other drivers often misjudge how quickly he can move and he had some close calls like this.

If I were the author I would reconsider using one of these, especially with his history of accidents...

I'm doing 40 kph, not mph, big difference there.

Power two weight is very modest, it's only a 350 W motor in there for this one.

My history with accidents is simple: I was cycling on a low racer recumbent and hit a traffic obstacle at a very unfortunate angle. Shit happens. But this bike is about 100x times safer than that recumbent. And a lot slower too, in spite of being assisted, low racers are very fast for unpowered bikes.

100% agreed, defensive driving is the key, and a good part of that is to know when to slow down: when there are other cyclists near you.

Yes the problem with ebikes isn't other people being aware of the bike's sound, it's the rider being aware of the risk to themselves and others. Maybe this is ingrained in the motorcycle culture, but it seems like most buyers of ebikes I know have never ridden a motorcycle before and were not riding bicycles regularly either. They just go "oh this makes my commute like that time I biked when I was on vacation" and approach safety with a lackadaisical attitude. That makes them relatively irresponsible riders in my opinion. This problem hopefully fixes itself over time as they learn from accidents and an ebike safety culture emerges, but for now it's pretty sad.

The bigger danger here in NL are the elderly, who suddenly go zooming around at twice the speeds they had before they got their e-bikes. Accidents every day like that, nasty ones too.

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