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Comment by LeonidasXIV | Hacker News Reader

I appreciate the fact that e-bikes are bringing biking to the masses. I really do. But from this post I also read a lot of coping, because your cycling infrastructure is bad. Like the speed argument is completely bogus if you wouldn't need to cycle next to cars that are going that fast. If you had separated bike lanes, maybe not even attached to streets. Proper bike infrastructure is what gets people to bike, e-bikes get more people to bike.

So yes, it is absolutely great that more people are on the road on an e-bike, now more people can demand their taxes to be invested in proper bike infrastructure helping both e-bike and regular bike riders.

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"Better bike infrastructure" and "a bit of pedal assist" are both good things that we need more of.

Even in the best possible future, I believe cycling in US cities will involve some amount of mixing with cars for the rest of my natural life (unfortunately!), so I'm not sure "completely bogus if…" is fair.

And anyway, a little extra speed is still useful because it's transportation.

Here's a fun thought experiment: define "places I can go" as "the locus of points within 1hr bike ride of a train station." If e-bikes let me go 50% faster (say, avg 15mph instead of 10mph), that multiplies the accessible area around each train station by 2.25x! I can go more than twice as many places now!

Are e-bikes bringing biking to the masses? At least here in the UK it seems that standard cycling is very common among ordinary people (and a basic bike can be bought for £50-£100). Whereas e-bikes are mainly owned by the relatively wealthy as they sell for upwards of £1000.

My observation is that ebikes broaden the group of cyclists to people who (for example) might otherwise consider themselves too unfit or elderly, or who would be put off cycling due to living in a hilly area, etc.

They also broaden the times a bike is used vs. some other mode of transport - for example commuting for people who would not want to arrive at work wringing in sweat and in need of a shower, or carrying heavier loads, or towing a child to school in a trailer over a longer distance, etc.

They don't do anything against rain and snow.

Might I suggest clothing? There is clothing available now that can be used to protect our frail, naked bodies against the punishing elements.

Indeed, yet they are hopeless against proper rain and snow, but I guess some people are masochistic.

I am used to Scandinavian, German and Swiss winter.

Cycling with rain or snowstorm, only when no other option is available.

I ride in rain and the only part that I don’t like is my face getting pelted, but the rest of me stays dry with the right clothing.

I admittedly do go camping in snow and whatnot but I find the biggest barrier people have to doing these things is not knowing the equipment that you can bring to make it nice. The worst part is actually probably mitigating rust IMO.

I am used to Canadian prarie winters. You're doing it wrong.

Living in the UK myself, I just wouldn't dare owning an e-bike and using it for anything outside of recreation, the theft of bicycles is crazy high, and the high purchase price is just not worth the risk. Yes you can get insurance but they usually have loads of exclusions so if you actually want to commute to work or to shops and leave the bike anywhere(even with a good lock) it's dodgy in terms of insurance. On the other hand my £50 scrappy looking bike deters theft by just looking too cheap to steal so I don't mind using it for commute.

£1000 is relatively cheap for a one off transport cost. An annual tube fare is between £1480 and £2708 depending on how many zones you want to travel in.

Conversion kits start at around £150 and can be fitted to that £50 bike.

The biggest issue I see for higher priced bikes is secure parking (as mentioned in the article). No one provides secure/supervised parking and its tricky to get insurance. You can't really lock any nice bike outside the supermarket and always expect it to be there when you get back.

If you want 250 watts or less for a bit of assistance with pedaling and ~20 miles of range, a conversion kit is fine.

But if you have to deal with serious hills or want to use throttle-only, 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum for that, and it requires a bigger motor, bigger battery, and disc brakes.* That costs a lot more and it's easier (and probably cheaper) to just buy the whole bike than convert what you have.

*Disc brakes are essential for higher-powered e-bikes because such bikes move faster and are much heavier than regular bikes. They need more serious stopping power than rim brakes can provide.

Currently 250W and 15.5mph are the current legal limits in the UK. If want buy bigger and take it on the road without registering it as a motorbike, getting an MOT and insurance or paying your road tax, then you may find the rossers feeling your collar.

I ride with a friend who has gone MTB electric. I leave him behind on the flat but he gets it back on the hills. He's fine for well in excess of 40 miles. Range is mainly an issue of battery size not the wattage.

If you want to use throttle only, then you're no longer riding a pedal-ec and are riding an electric motorcycle (and will consequently need the appropriate licence, insurance and vehicle type approval).

In the US if the bike is powered by a 750 watt or smaller motor and travels at 20 mph or less, it's still an electric bike -- not a motorcycle -- even when powered solely by the battery.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-bill/727/...

> 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum

Those numbers seem huge. I can only put out about 150W sustained, so a 250W motor boost on top of that sounds like a lot. That would have me at 400W combined which is nearly pro-rider territory.

Pro riders are riding 17-lb bikes. An electric bike with a big motor and battery is closer to 60 lbs. Electric bikes are governed by something similar to the rocket equation.

> Pro riders are riding 17-lb bikes. An electric bike with a big motor and battery is closer to 60 lbs.

My road bike (a 10+ year old Specialized) is 19lbs.

A Specialized Turbo Creo (an e-bike) is under 28lbs as advertised.

My mountain bike (regular bike, nothing electric) is 29lbs.

I know 60lb behemots exist, but e-bikes don't need to be crazy heavy anymore.

Do they start that cheap? I'm looking at this website and there's nothing even close to that price:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/best-electric-bike-conv...

You are right. My minimal research was inadequate. There are some shonky kits on EBay for £53 that don't include the battery. At least one on Amazon for £80, but looking more carefully its probably looking more like £350 to £400.

My experience is similar, mostly enthusiasts with e-bikes. It doesn't seem like the masses have adopted them yet as far as buying a bike goes.

It's a very expensive risk / unknown result for most folks who don't alredy bike.

Yes, though it's taking a while, and you're not wrong that it's hitting more affluent demographics first (not unusual for new tech though).

I will ebike for over an hour. I will not cycle for over an hour to get somewhere (as I will be completely soaked and fairly tired).

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