Comment by wwilim | Hacker News Reader

Comment by wwilim | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

A lot of the heated debate here is about racism. I'm not from the US, but in my experience people get terribly inequal opportunities in education even in environments where everyone has the same ethnic background. The most limiting factors as I see them are first and foremost a lack of love and care from one's parents, and second a wealth deficit.

Many commenters are also furious about alleged "lowering the bar". Remember than once we take away certain factors from grading, if we do it right, new factors will take their place - it's not just going to be all participation prizes. The idea is that the bar will be higher, but it will be positioned in a place where all students have to jump the same height to clear it.

The general idea is clear, but as for how that could be implemented, I don't know. I was hoping to find out in the article, but I was left terribly disappointed. The way it is written does make it sound like coaching baloney, which I think doesn't do the people trying to improve their education system any justice, it just makes it easy for them to be labeled social justice warriors.

> The most limiting factors as I see them are first and foremost a lack of love and care from one's parents, and second a wealth deficit.

I have numerous friends who are teachers and they all consistently say that the biggest problem is poor parenting. Primarily disengaged parents or parents who don’t value education.

Of course this is the elephant in the room because no politician is going to blame parents.

It seems to me that all the chat up-thread about schooling vouchers and parental choice are entirely missing the point. The children of engaged parents will probably do ok anyway. It’s the bad parents that are the problem.

>I have numerous friends who are teachers and they all consistently say that the biggest problem is poor parenting. Primarily disengaged parents or parents who don’t value education.

But that should be the role of public schools. Teach children even if their parents don't care and don't challenge them to learn.

> Teach children even if their parents don't care and don't challenge them to learn.

I saw the kids I taught five hours a week. Their families see them much more (hopefully, though often not because mom's single and working two/three jobs to keep Alice and her younger brother fed and clothed). Who do you think is going to win the influence battle? And, really, when Alice has to go work to help support the family, how much do you think she really cares about homework or school? I'd go so far as to wager that most educational problems in the State stem from socioeconomic ones.

School cannot overcome parents at home, sadly.

> But that should be the role of public schools.

Negative Ghost Rider. The state should never try to replace parenting. If Western society no longer values parenting and sacrifice and suffering for it's children, maybe it is better for some other subgroup of humanity to overtake us.

Is it that we don't value it, or that parents don't have time to actively parent? Or aren't around due to other socioeconomic issues? I taught at a rural school in the States. Less than a quarter of our students lived with both parents at home. And less than 10% lived with families who made enough to keep them off the 'free and reduced lunch program' (thankfully our school gives everyone free breakfast and lunch, and sends food home on the weekends with many). Maybe the issue is these parents would love to parent, but can't because they have to slave away working multiple jobs to just try to make ends meet?

Well, it’s a mixture of both of course but I have seen parents who are aware that they can’t parent as well as they’d like, for whatever reason, and accept any support available.

The ones that seem worse to me are the ones saying “don’t worry about school, we’ll get you a job in the family business”. Maybe they’re financially more secure, but they’re hardly giving their kids much of a chance.

Teachers do try, but that’s why public school teachers are so tired and overworked.

When children are constantly receiving the message “school is a waste of time, don’t bother trying” it’s exceptionally difficult for teachers to overcome that in class.

Politically no one wants to grasp it because conservatives like to talk about parental choice, as if every parent is well-informed and usefully involved, while the left doesn’t want to accept that some people won’t help themselves.

This then perpetuates from generation to generation, people see the success of immigrant children whose parents value education, resentment grows etc etc.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com