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Comment by spamizbad | Hacker News Reader

A lot of it has to do with management practices for low wage workers in the US. They aren't treated fairly. Part of the reason why this sector is struggling to hire in the US right now isn't just because of pay: it's the fact that you get treated poorly by management. Better paying jobs that aren't as grueling opened up during the so-called "great resignation" and tons of former low-wage workers have stepped in to fill those roles.

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This is sad, but true. One thing I've heard about is flex scheduling, where you don't know your schedule until the last possible minute. Sure, great a project for a guy in IT like me and the VP who manages him back at HQ to get some costs down, but it's absolute havoc on peoples lives. That's one example, but it's nonstop.

One rumor that occasionally makes the rounds is that managers specifically seek to disorient and fatigue workers with hostile flex schedules in order to keep employees too exhausted to seek better work.

It's a little dramatic for my taste, Occam's Razor probably applies, but there might just be a grain of truth to it... at least in the darwinian sense where incompetent time management just so happens to somehow beat workers into submission better than competent time management happens to retain them. The incompetent managers win out over time and a dominant pattern emerges.

I know small business owners in the hotel business that use this tactic to prevent workers from finding other jobs. It is a very common tactic that I would say most small business owners hear or figure out very quickly.

Another is using immigrants or poor people trying to establish themselves as managers in name, but in reality they are there to fill in for the lower paid shift workers who are constantly quitting or unreliable because they are paying the lowest wages.

The “managers” put up with this to earn a steady salary paycheck, but per hour worked, it frequently comes out to less than minimum wage.

Obama admin increasing minimum salaries to $48k from $33k had the small business owners I know frothing at the mouth.

I've seen small to medium sized programming shops doing contract work on web sites or some unknown game company paying people between $25K to $30K a year, and working teams of them 60 hours a week... People with masters degrees in CS, actually making around $10 an hour, so they can have a programming job on their resume... far more evil than fast food, if you ask me.

I do not see the point of ranking it, but I would factor in the probabilities of advancement and improving quality of life for a person with history of programming versus fast food.

Hanlan's razor

> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

With the corollary

> but don't rule out malice.

Flex scheduling should be downright illegal for part-time jobs, since it requires you to keep your schedule so open that it disrupts your life to the same extent as working full-time hours. Force employers to lock down schedules long enough in advance that people can actually plan to live their lives.

Flex scheduling is one of those things that's had far more staying power in the heads of people in ivory towers than in the heads of people in boardrooms. (not that that doesn't mean some dunce isn't implementing it somewhere at any given time). It bounced around various industries in the 2000s and mostly ran its course when people figured out it increases errors, increases lateness and no-shows, increases turnover and the benefits were scant if measurable. I know of at least one chain of retail stores where the results were bi-modal. The bottom distribution was the stores that just implemented the schedules at face value. The top distribution was the one where managers realized the schedules were insane and came up with their own off the books. I don't think that chain will be trying to push flex scheduling on its locations again for a very long time.

A lot of it is also the American public being selfish and inconsiderate of others. Even at a low wage, I'm sure the job would be more bearable and perhaps even enjoyable if the employees were not treated so poorly by the public and their coworkers.

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