The best I can guess is that you are referring to Korolev's work on the rocket-powered artillery during the WW2, when his entire crew was forced to work from a Siberian labour camp. So the gratituos jailing of engineers is off by 40 years from when this CPU was created.
The remark on struggling to produce energy is also a weird one. No idea where you got this from and how it relates to the CPU power profile.
I can relate to the need to crap on all things Soviet, but at least keep it factually correct and relevant.
Sakharov, the father of Russian hydrogen bomb was exiled for 7 years. He lived under house arrest, sick when this CPU was made:
Sakharov was persecuted by the state because of his political views, not because of his underwhelming engineering track record.
I spun her into my best friend (at the time) and they were happy for many years (but divorced).
Seeing them, we are all the same. The language may differ, but human wants and needs are mostly identical.
We should be courteous and congenial to the needs and desires of others.
That's all that I would like to say.
I highly recommend that cruise.
It collapsed because the economy was state owned. If USSR did what China did, not only it wouldn't have collapsed, but it would have been actually a very strong country.
The collapse of Soviet Union was simply a dissolution of union treaty between soviet republics, that happened primarily as a result of a struggle for power between Union-level government (Gorbachev) and republican-level (Eltsin of Russia, Kravchuk of Ukraine, etc). After failed coup in August of 1991 Gorbachev effectively lost his support and the fate of SU was sealed.
Again, economic crisis in the 90's in many of the post-soviet states was much stronger yet none of them 'collapsed'. Regime changes often have political reasons, where economy plays a useful backdrop.
We allowed China to do this to drive a wedge between China and the USSR. That option was not available to the U.S.S.R.
That's what I am trying to argue: they haven't collapsed because of lack of technology, they collapsed because a state owned economy cannot grow at the rate needed to compete.
If Perestroika have been started earlier and with a strong focus to transfer parts of economy to private owned businesses, they wouldn't have been outcompeted.
Uhm, no. It is a myopic and a highly lopsided point of view. The collapse of the Soviet Union was a combination of a few compounding factors:
– Soviet Union has come out of the WWII having been slightly less than completely devastated. The entire European part of the USSR, that had been the centre of the manufactoring and farming before the war, was razed into the ground. Larger and smaller cities, towns, villages – every single thing.
– Accounts vary, but the general consensus is that at least 27 million people have perished in the war (in trenches / battles, in Nazi concentration camps, tortured, gassed or burned alive or executed). Again, by varying accounts, at least 50 million more people have come out of the war being physically or psychologically (usually both) traumatised. The killed and the injured have comprised the most productive part of the USSR workforce before the war – out of a population of 140 million people before the war.
– A few waves of internal political represssions and witch hunting that have followed the war and up until Stalin's death have added to the number of overall casualties.
– It has taken the USSR nearly 20 years to return to pre-war levels of the production output. The vast majority of the population have lacked basic necessities all the way into mid-1960's or longer. Having rebuilt the economy, the government has focused on providing the general populace with free (oftentimes shitty, though) accommodation, free health, free education, full time employment and pension. By the mid-1970's, the majority of the population had had a roof of sorts over their heads (also of varying quality); still, it was a roof, and it was free of charge.
– Not only did the US come out of the WWII unscathed, it has also turned out to be the main beneficiary of the war. In exchange for help, the USSR (and the UK as well) were shipping convoys loaded with the gold bullion back to North American shores over the Arctic Sea. Even though the Nazi U-boats did succeed in the sinking of quite a few of the convoy ships, by the end of the war the US had become immensely rich with no material damage to the local economy. It is important to point out that, without the US (Canadian / UK and the allied help overall) assistance – that was absolutely crucial to the USSR survival in the first 2-3 years of the war – the USSR would have not lasted past 1941-42. The US was providing the USSR with everything, starting from machinery, armaments, munitions – down to army uniforms and preserved food. US made Studebaker US6 trucks were the single most frequently utilised military vehicle in the Red Army due to their availability and sturdiness throughout the entire war. Disappointingly, due to the current heated political situation, many ex-Soviet/Russian citizens live in complete denial of the importance of the US help in the WWII.
– In the following post-war years, the US has succeeded where the Soviet government has failed. Namely, in winning a psychological war and, consequently, in tricking and convincing the Soviet government into a believing that a nuclear conflict was imminent and inevitable. Which has resulted in the economic production nearly in its entirety having been funneled into defence and arms race at the expense of domestic needs. In the hindsight, the Soviet government could have ignored the threat, but they did not. Which was a grave mistake.
– A lesser, but not insignificant, factor was the Soviet Union throwing money away at establishing and supporting nascent, Soviet friendly, regimes and proxy wars in the post-colonial world that has not resulted in anything else other than flushing vasts of money down the drain.
– Towards the end of 1980's, a huge internal budget deficit caused by preceding factors had resulted in a death spiral and a complete economic and – predictably – political collapse of the Soviet Union.
The state run economy has actually done a very good job at recovering the country's economy in the first two post-WWII decades.
Good point, but that doesn't disprove what I've said. US could build tons of weapons because they had resources. And they had resources because the economy was flourishing. USSR economy was subpar.
>A lesser, but not insignificant, factor was the Soviet Union throwing money away at establishing and supporting nascent, Soviet friendly, regimes and proxy wars in the post-colonial world that has not resulted in anything else other than flushing vasts of money down the drain.
True, but US also threw money to support friendly regimes. Just that US could afford it because the economy was in a good state due to it not being owned by the state.
>The state run economy has actually done a very good job at recovering the country's economy in the first two post-WWII decades
It actually didn't. Germany recovered faster, Japan recovered faster and they've been hit very hard. USSR worked until a point after which it couldn't compete with a market economy. China realized it and allowed people to run businesses.
Subpar you say. I have a habit of giving the credit where it is due, whether it is the US, or USSR, or the Klingon kingdom – I simply could not care less who is the beneficiary of it.
By the time the USSR launched the Sputnik, the US – whilst very much likely having a superior economic production output – had been significantly scientifically lagging behind the USSR due to the historically high anti-intellectual stance permeating throughout the US society (which still exists today) – the infamous «shoot the tall poppy» syndrome. The first man made Soviet satellite launch has caused a locomotion in the US of such proportions that the whole reason why DARPA and NASA have come into existence is solely because of that; it was the US response to the satellite launch. It has also spurred the National Defense Education Act which was enacted in 1958 with the sole purpose of catching up with the USSR and that has poured billions of dollars to revamp the US education system. The US did catch up and overtake, yes; however it is still an open question whether it was due to the neglect of lowly domestic needs within the Soviet realm or the rot therein that has followed regressive government policies.
> Germany recovered faster, Japan recovered faster and they've been hit very hard. USSR worked until a point after which it couldn't compete with a market economy.
Ever heard of the Marshall plan that has aided the recovery of Western Europe? USSR did apply to participate in the US aid programme; however negotiations quickly fell apart after, due to vehement disagreements over the future of Germany. USSR has bailed shortly after (rightly or wrongly).
> China realized it and allowed people to run businesses.
You are not conflating post-WWII years with early 1990's, are you? They are somewhat 50 years apart from each other.
Why did it do such a bad job in the later decades, when they had recovered from the war?
Because nobody cared to make it work. From bottom to the top. Some were just pretending they worked, some worked poorly, some work good but with no good direction.
When there's no competition and no personal incentive to improve, then why try to improve something?
They did care. The first two post-WWII decades were a time of a massive economic and social upheaval where everyone did care to regain peace and everything and everyone that had been lost in the war. People have united to rebuild the country from scratch. It started rapidly going downhill in late 1970's and onwards due to stagnation and growing indifference stemming out of it.
My best take on it is that the war machine coupled with the toxic paranoia of the senile Brezhnev government has caused the eventual demise of the USSR. The Khrushchev thaw spanning nearly a decade before that, in my personal, somewhat weakly substantiated view, was the last chance when the USSR could begin a gradual transition into opening up and becoming a Scandinavian like socialist state (I can have my own pipe dream, okay?). What followed instead was the economic stagnation focused on the preservation of the Soviet state, heavily handed suppressions of democratic movements in satellite states of the Eastern block as well as domestic policies targeting the dissent.
It would not have been important technology, but that's not what the USSR lacked.
Worked great for China.
A country run by insecure manchildren cannot be strong
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29114646.
Edit: if you keep ignoring our requests to stop posting like this, we're going to end up banning you. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this. Seriously not cool.
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