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Comment by cortesoft | Hacker News Reader

You can't tell me not to fear it. I have a HUGE eye phobia; I can't even open my eyes under water. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it isn't a rational thing.

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Talking about eye surgery is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I don’t want to talk about yours, let alone think about mine.

I have joked with my friends and family about giving them a limited power of attorney that in the case of eye or testicular surgery they can dose me with tranquilizers or anti anxiety meds without my knowledge and deliver me to the surgeon, having not told me that my surgery is today.

They’re not sure if I’m kidding, and neither am I.

Have you tried watching videos of surgeries to see if you can acclimatize your fear? Starting with something trivial like a skin suture or mole removal might be tolerable. Exposure therapy is an established way to gradually inoculate yourself against a fear that seems inescapably overwhelming.

> Have you tried watching videos of surgeries to see if you can acclimatize your fear?

If you're anxious enough already, then: Don't. Ever. Do. This. Videos don't help, at all. And your brain is constantly thinking about ways things might have gone wrong, while simultaneously looking (no pun) for comments from people explaining how exactly things went wrong for them!

The trick is to take the entire day off of work, take xanax, and do the motions without panicking.

The feeling you're describing is literally panic from an anxiety disorder. If it it's interfering with your adult responsibilities (like going to the doctor), that's the right time to use medication to get through it.

My toddler recently scratched my cornea with a finger, and while I was completely traumatized, I was able to go to the doctor and allow them to treat me. The phobia is not quite debilitating, just strong.

I have pretty high pain tolerance, but I can't handle eye injuries. I had a scratch on my cornea back in high school and I still remember how there was no ignoring it and nothing that alleviated the pain. Got a corneal ulcer a few months ago from the fancy 24/7 contacts the optometrist sold me. It wasn't near as bad as I remember the scratch being, but I definitely called into work and hid under the covers for a full day.

Pre-surgery benzodiazepines might fix that and are given to particularly anxious patients - I was terrified going into a surgery and was given those, ten minutes later there was total relief. I can easily understand the addiction risk (and haven't had them since), but for acute anxiety it was wild how much of a relief it was.

I went from nervous with fairly intense physical symptoms to being totally chill.

>You can't tell me not to fear it.

They didn't. They said don't postpone your treatment and suffer irreversible vision loss, due to fear.

>To any future HN reader scared by those intraocular injections: don't fear them.

Missed that, thanks.

I'm the same way. I even have a hard time with drops despite using them regularly for years. I understand perfectly well that it's completely irrational yet I have not found a way to gain control over it.

Yeah if you are afraid to open your eyes underwater there is no way your letting a needle come near your eye when you are conscious and can see it. I have never heard of this eye phobia very interesting

I don't open my eyes either but mostly in swimming pools full of chlorine. Didn't know it was a phobia, because all I'm trying to do is avoid annoying eye irritation.

This is so bizarre to me, to be an adult and just unable to control your own body? I guess I'm lucky to not have this issue, but man it's so foreign to me that you can't even open your eyes under water.

Would you also not struggle to touch a hot stove? I think it is a similar feeling. Genuine question too - I've got a friend who is comedically brave and doesn't experience pain the way that other people do who might express a similar idea. He just already knows that its unusual and not the default.

That’s an interesting idea. I think I’d be able to touch it, I know I’d dislike it immensely though.

But this question helped me clarify my thoughts around this more. It’s the distinction between rational fear vs irrational fear. Assuming clean water the fear of opening your eyes underwater is irrational, it’s not going to hurt you or do any long term damage. The example from the story about getting an injection on your eye is maybe someplace in between, needle in the eye is much more invasive, but also deemed medically necessary where the risk of not doing it is greater than the risk of doing it.

Not having the ability to override your own emotions in cases where they are irrational is interesting to me. It’s like giving agency to an “external other” that you have no control over.

Well, I think you're getting close, but you still seem to be coming at this from a place of presumed superiority, mostly due to the separation of fears into 'rational' vs 'irrational'. Part of TFA is that they were not given enough information - is it irrational to fear some one stabbing your eye just because they are also confident that it will be for your betterment? From your water example it is clear also that you've learned that some water is safe to open your eyes in and built confidence in that knowledge - what if you hadn't had those experiences? Where I grew up the water was painfully cold, frequently polluted, and silty enough that I wouldn't be surprised if you got a scratch on your eye from doing that. I learned to open my eyes in the water in a public pool and discovered that I could do so with only minor irritation. If the chemical balance had been different that probably would not have been the case.

I think another perspective that might be helpful is to think of this in terms of the flinch reflex. Anyone can control theirs (this is an emotional process, sure), but the difficulty involves how sensitive they are, how strong the input is, how necessary they deem the action, and how afraid they are of potential consequences. Again, I don't think 'rational' or 'irrational' comes into play here or explains anything extra, I think in your case for example you are probably not jumpy (overly sensitive), and confident that your outcomes will be acceptable. I think the author was probably a little jumpy and was not confident in the outcome of an eye-poke.

If I absolutely needed to open my eyes under water for an important reason, I likely could. That is just not a common situation and I haven't encountered it.

I don't think not opening my eyes under water is THAT irrational, really. My reason for keeping my eyes closed (my fear and not liking the feeling of water touching my eyes) is greater than my need to open my eyes under water (which has been no real reason so far).

I seriously doubt you can rationally override your own emotions at any situation. And you should doubt that too, it can make you biased to think you're being rational without noticing you're not.

It seems like you are stretching my words here.

It could be that you just don't have very strong emotions. The "dynamic range" of felt emotion varies greatly between individuals.

Phobias are very common. Almost everyone has one, like fear of heights or being trapped in a small space. The fear is not rational, and the phobic is well aware of that, but simply knowing it's irrational doesn't help rid you of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_phobias

I think you might be overestimating what I mean by "can't" open my eyes under water. I think the 'touching a hot stove' metaphor is a good one. It feels like that to me.

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