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Comment by hyperstar | Hacker News Reader

Rejecting the smartphone might be a start.

I don't think you can escape the use of the smart phone. But treating them as "throw-away", as not your device, etc.

I think the original landlines, which were/are a few switches connected to a write on one side and some microphones on the other, were close to inherently insecure. Phones haven't ever been "your device" whereas a laptop might, maybe be rendered trustworthy.

I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones: it should be possible to know that the thing is not listening. But smartphones also have other private information on them than what can be captured by its microphone.

I don't think the smartphone is inescapable at all, and I don't think any of the conveniences it offers is worth surrendering one's privacy. But there is a tendency in businesses to ignore the fact that some potential customers do not have smartphones. I wonder if legislation against this might be possible.

> I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones

There is one smartphone with those: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5. The alternative one, Pinephone, has quite inconvenient kill switches.

How can you possibly not escape the use of a smartphone?

I recently had to file an insurance claim with my car insurer. The entire process happened through their app. They require you to send them pictures that you took using their app.

One of my banks has been closing branches left and right, and if I want to use my accounts for anything other than debit purchases, I need to use the app. Some banks even charge you when you go to a branch location in person and use a teller to access your accounts.

Some jobs require you to install and use apps on your phone. Last time I was a big box retailer, the floor staff had the company's app installed on their phones so they could do instant price look ups and confirm discounts on their store's inventory.

Even just applying for a job requires an internet browser, and many people's only access to the internet is through their phone.

Pretty much all those things you can do over old channels still. The app is optional. I can do everything my mobile banking website can do over the phone. The last time I filed a claim with my insurer, everything happened via back and forth emailing.

Plenty of jobs these days essentially require one, be it for communication, authentication, or what have you.

Preferably, don't take those jobs. Or, if you must, tape the cameras and remove the microphone. Use a wired headset for talking and unplug it when not in use. When not on the job, turn it off and wrap it in aluminium foil.

This is the only solution, and one with very minimal downside. In fact, within a year society would be so greatly improved, we’d look back in horror at the current state of affairs and wonder how we’d all gone so mad in the first place.

Many restaurants only provide menus via smartphones. Sporting events only accept electronic tickets. How can you reject it, practically?

By going to restaurants with proper service (if at all) and not going to sporting events.

Not practical for 99.99% of the population.

i doubt 99.9% of people only eat at restaurants that only have smartphone menus

I have never eaten in such a restaurant and I eat out a lot.

Is this really true where you are? No menus?

Not all, but many restaurants in multiple cities. They use QR codes, no doubt to identify you better (tie you to a specific place and time, maybe to a specific table). Usually I just load the restaurant's website on my phone and read the menu that way.

I was also at a play where a QR code was the only way to get the program.

What exactly are you suggesting the QR code is doing? My phone shows me the URL encoded by the QR code before opening, and I've never seen one with any additional information in the URL. They're not dynamically generating QR codes for you...

The static URL encoded by the QR code funnels you to a web page where that page view can be reported back to trackers and incorporated into your advertising profile.

Using your device to read the menu puts your device in the loop where formerly it was not.

Sure, if I suspend disbelief and assume that no other search engines or navigation services were used that do similar tracking—but the GP was specifically calling out QR codes, and they use the website anyway.

You don't have to suspend disbelief to come up with such a scenario. When I go to the bar down the street from my apartment, order food and a drink, pay cash and then leave, it was not an interaction that was likely to become part of my advertising profile. Now it is.

It's not comparing websites accessed via QR against every other already tracked thing in society, it's comparing it with laminated pieces of paper.

Have you used them at restaurants? I've avoided it, so I don't know.

I didn't mean they generate QR codes dynamically. It wouldn't be hard at all to encode the table number, for example, and then of course they have the time and know your reservation, and thus can identify their customer's phone.

This is a COVID trend. They still provide physical copy on request.

This is the only thing that makes sense. What if your battery is dead? Not having access to the menu would be ridiculous.

Not quite the same thing, but I had to head home early one night recently because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof. I would guess that a person's phone dying while bar-hopping is much more common than dying while dining alone (since when dining with others, you can just look at their menus).

You're not wrong that this fundamentally excludes those who don't have (powered-up) smartphones. But it's not like restaurants and bars had the luxury of thinking through and choosing to have these effective new smartphone requirements: they adapted to Covid for their survival, and the odd case who got unlucky with a dead phone is just collateral damage.

because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof.

I'm in Canada, and we use QR codes, signed by the government, to show and validate status.

Mine is printed out, and in my pocket. No phone is required.

Thus, no one needs to avoid anything, phone or not.

Well yes, the point of this subthread is not that it's impossible to do this well, but that bars/restaurants don't seem to care whether they're excluding the occasional unlucky customer. I'm in New York City and not a single person has scanned my vax QR code: they just see a vaguely official looking app with a name that matches my ID, or a physical vaccination card (conveniently sized to not fit in any wallets).

Also, in your case, is this a federal system or a state by state one? If the latter, this sounds way worse than what NY is doing; with my CA vaccination I couldn't get in anywhere.

We have few provinces (10) in Canada, so it is easier than working and coordinating with all the states the US has.

The QR code is provincial, but it only requires minor changes to have one provincial app, look at other validation sources.

I agree that sadly, restaurants may find some metrics too high/annoying to deal with, and opt for a lost sale.

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