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Comment by gregnavis | Hacker News Reader

Quick summary for those who can't read Polish:

- He was a water spider in an Amazon warehouse.

- On 5 Sep, 2021 he asked his team lead to assign extra help because he and his colleagues couldn't keep up with the amount of work. An argument between them ensued but some help was assigned at the end of the day.

- In the morning of 6 Sep, 2021 he felt stabbing in his chest and had difficulties breathing. He asked the team lead to call a medic (there were medical care worked employed by Amazon) but he refused and offered to walk him to the medic instead.

- He passed out on his way to the medic and never regained consciousness.

- An investigation was opened on 7 Sep, 2021.

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What's a water spider?

"The water spider is a term that refers to a specific person whose main job is to make sure that materials are supplied to where they are needed. While this is mainly a material replenishment position, it offers a bit more flexibility, and some additional benefits if well-implemented. The rationale behind having such a person is to allow the rest of the personnel to devote their full attention to tasks that add value to the process. This also highlights how much transportation waste and inefficiency exists in the process by isolating it all into one or more positions."

https://www.shmula.com/what-is-the-role-of-the-waterspider-i...

I found this:

https://www.flexpipeinc.com/ca_en/role_of_waterspider/

> Water spider is a term that refers to a specific person whose main job is to take care of intermittent tasks such as supplying material at workstations.

According to https://kanbantool.com/kanban-guide/water-spider:

> A water spider is a Lean production personnel role centered around timely and accurate stock replenishment. The water spider team member is similar to a mobile Kanban system that refills the production line with the required materials to maintain a steady flow.

I had not heard the term either. Based on what others have written here, the position sounds similar to, but not exactly the same as, what manufacturing companies call an expeditor: A person assigned to the manufacturing floor who gets hot (late) orders finished and shipped as soon as possible.

An expeditor works on (late) customer orders, and does what is necessary. The water spider supports the people working on customer orders.

I'd consider that a major difference, but your mileage may vary :)

It was "rover" or "free safety" a long time ago when I worked in a factory. Both borrowed American football terms that seem to fit reasonably well.

It’s the only species of spider known to live entirely underwater.

> He asked the team lead to call a medic (there were medical care worked employed by Amazon) but he refused and offered to walk him to the medic instead.

This is the step that most people would point out as the main 'mistake'. However, a medic without his equipment isn't a lot of use, and it's pretty likely the facility had a medical bay. For a patient who can walk, taking them to the medical bay will probably lead to better care quicker than calling the medic out. Walking there with someone is a very sensible precaution.

Imagine the reverse... Medic called to employee. Medic doesn't have defibrillator in equipment bag (it's filled with stuff for more common accidents). Employee dies because now the medic has to make the journey from the medical bay to the employee four times, taking far too long.

This is extraordinarily dangerous advice.

The description given above is likely a myocardial infarction or an aortic dissection.

If you are having chest pain, you should minimize myocardial demand. Sit down. Call emergency services.

Do not exert yourself by walking. That is a recipe for sudden cardiac death.

Completely agree but an expectation that the nearest colleague should know this is unrealistic.

Is it though? If it is your team lead who apparently has the managerial power to deny you a medic, they certainly should also be required to be competent enough to make that decision.

Anything else is just an accident waiting to happen (and in this case, did happen).

If you think someone is having a heart attack please call the emergency services immediately and hope you don't need a defibrillator or to perform CPR.

Edit: To add I had one in May despite being fit, young-ish and with no cardio-vascular problems. It came on whilst swimming and I foolishly carried on through it, got dressed and walked home, lay down for a bit before I got my wife to take me to the emergency room where they did approximately 4 seconds of EKG before stuffing me full of drugs and rushing me to surgery via an ambulance. For an idea of the level of potential for dying the ambulance came with a doctor as well as paramedics.

This is really scary. How did you know you were having a heart attack?

I didn't. I was ill the previous week and woke up on the Thursday during the night with what I thought was really bad heartburn even though I don't really get it. Eventually fell back asleep and bought some antacids over the weekend. Weekend was pretty eventful, taking kids on walks and doing a lot of that with them on my shoulders.

So on the Monday I went swimming and thought the pain was related to being still a bit sick or heartburn. The reason I went to the hospital was the antacids weren't doing anything and it was pretty painful. I also nearly threw up in the changing rooms at the pool.

By the time I got to the hospital I was actually feeling quite a bit better and feeling a bit sheepish about being there. Then they hooked me up to the EKG and I knew something was very wrong by everyone going into overdrive. I didn't know how wrong until after the surgery (you're awake through the PCI) and the surgeon took me through what was going on. Basically I was minutes away from dying as my left coronary artery was completely blocked. They had to stent the clot to fix things.

The aftermath is that there wasn't a known cause. I have no chronic issues, or clotting issues and my arteries themselves are perfectly healthy. I was lucky and there was no visible damage to the heart. I'm back exercising again and now in my second set of rehab.

Would an Apple Watch have caught this fluctuations in your heart? Glad you made it through this scary incident.

I think it would have highlighted issues earlier. In hindsight I definitely has flutters that I maybe should have gotten checked out. That said Apple themselves say that the watch won’t detect a heart attack. Presumably the bar for a device that does that reliably is pretty high.

> Medic doesn't have defibrillator in equipment bag

In Germany defibrillators are openly available in most public buildings and I think any industrial setting has to have them easily accessible too. They're as idiot proof as it gets: you push a big button and follow the instructions (automated voice commands, but I think there is also a text display as backup).

I don't know what the laws are like in Poland but all I'm saying is that this scenario you propose could easily be solved with basic health and safety regulations.

You're also ignoring that they could have called the medic while also moving him in the direction of the medical facility, assuming the movement didn't contribute to his death. Not to mention that a trained emergency medic should know what equipment to bring based on reported symptoms.

I took a CPR/First aid class a few months ago and one of the things we were told was to grab the portable defibrillator or know where one is nearby. Our office defib is no larger than a lunch box so not sure why a medic wouldn’t carry one. Also heart attacks is one of the most common incidents. 25% of my CPR training was dedicated to using it properly.

Defibrillators easily fit in EMT go bags and are carried along with oxygen and other mechanical devices.

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