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Comment by giveexamples | Hacker News Reader

I agree that there might be a god, but why would such a god that can transcends time and logic.. care about humans? Humans are just a type of animal, an advanced organism, in biological terms we are not too different from bacteria, trees and sheep.

That there is a first element seems natural, however why should this first element to care about the 100010847238384392938474934th element?

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In terms of the Islamic tradition, Allah [lit. The God] is both transcendent and immanent.

Quran 50:16 states that Allah is closer to man than his jugular vein and Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah.

Now to answer why He cares, the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him.

And indeed, the recurring injunction in the Quran is to remember Allah, because you already know Him—Quran 7:172 states that we testified to His Lordship in a pre-birth state.

Interestingly this sounds like the new agey saying "We are the universe experiencing itself".

> Quran 2:115 states that wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah.

So Allah is everything or at least he is IN everything. The universe is everything.

> the Quran states that He specifically created mankind to know Him.

Mankind experiences Allah, the universe.

Would you agree with this kind of mapping or am I making any unjustified leaps here?

I would not agree with that because it's pantheism.

One meaning for His Face being everywhere is that everything is turned towards Him whether they know it or not, since He is the giver of being. It does not mean a literal encapsulation or identification of the Infinite with the finite.

Rather, closer to your sentiment from an Islamic theological perspective is to say that what we experience in the universe is an interplay of His attributes since He is the causer.

This is a tangent, but I don't have many opportunities to speak to people knowledgeable of Islam. Is there a concept of original sin in Islam? Do we need to seek forgiveness or salvation?

Islam does not have a concept of original sin attached to the descending of mankind to earth. Adam and his wife disobeying the command to eat from the forbidden tree is described as a "slip" in the Quran, not a monstrosity of a rebellion as seen in Christianity. Indeed, the Quran also says that before even creating Adam, Allah announced [to the angels] the purpose of Adam and his offspring is to be put on the earth as a vicegerent (Quran 2:30).

I define salvation as: 'being preserved in Heaven', and in Islam this is sought through forgiveness.

Quran 39:53 Say, “O servants of Mine who have transgressed against their own selves, do not despair of Allah’s Mercy. Surely, Allah will forgive all sins. Surely, He is the One who is the Most Forgiving, the Ever Merciful."

Thanks for the information and the pointers to the text in the Quran. Time to do some reading!

Nope. The Islamic approach is to optimize to our maxima. Essentially our core purpose is to strive to "find/discover/understand" God through manifesting different values (the 99 names of Allah). The various prophets (Jesus) are those among us who came closest so that understanding and manifestation.

I’ve never understood this argument. What else would god “care” about, if not the only truly sentient creature that we know of?

Trillions of light years of pointless rock with a few Apes in the middle who can contemplate God. Seems pretty damn special fo me.

Look at your kitchen sink. On that metal lives a billion bacteria cells. Maybe some of them are even sentient. Do you even care to find out? Not really - its far beneath you. Humans are infinitely inferior to a god. We are no different to a moving rock.

You're assuming God's values though.

We are the only creature we know of that's capable of reasoning about our own existence and understanding our potential creation. That is a scientific fact of which there is no counterevidence.

To deny that in an effort to refute the potential existence of God is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

This statement can also be taken as one as a limitation of our understanding of the internal lives of other creatures. And there's nothing scientific about it.

The problem is, if you're going to make that case, the same argument can be applied to a limitation of our understanding of our origin.

a sentient bacteria? How would that work? Does the bacteria have a huge brain so that sentience can emerge from it?

The entire universe we know could be but a single neuron firing in a huge brain of something much much bigger... and they don't even realize we exist...so size is very... relative/immaterial to sentience...we could be the sentient bacteria.

I think God just cares about self reproduction, not of a specific species but in general. But I would rather consider this a natural force like a locally reversed entropy instead of a sentient agent who acts on the world.

There are a million hobbies in this world. Why did you choose the hobby you chose? Because it pleases you.

Why did you pick up that one shell at the beach while there are thousands of them? Because your eye fell on it.

I am not sure if I understand your argument. If there is a God who is the first and last element, who created everything, why wouldn't his eye fall in love with one element? And why not with all elements?

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