When it comes to phones I feel stuck behind a rock and a hard place - choose iPhone, with poor Linux integration and threats to passively scan files on my phone and forward them to LEO? Sure, they have a decent record with security but these bug bounty reports haven't been great.
Or choose Android, with its poor privacy record, a result of being built by an ad company that's already scanning my phone and mining it for data?
edited to add - While I'd love to see a true competitor in this space (i.e. not based on Android - those projects don't seem to work out well as a result of being half-in/half-out of the ecosystem) I don't see how it's possible without the support of the large tech players - Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Twitter, and Spotify at minimum, to say nothing of the long tail.
This wouldn't be much of a problem if it wasn't for Google's SafetyNet that prevents Android apps from running on hardware and software platforms that Google doesn't approve of. You wouldn't need support from large companies if you were able to run the apps they already release for Android.
Compatibility layers like Anbox or Waydroid that allow you to run Android apps on Linux can't run SafetyNet-enabled apps, despite having no problem running other Android apps.
SafetyNet prevents compatibility layers like WSL 1 & 2, Proton or WINE with Android support from coming to Windows or other platforms, as well.
It's not Android/Google forcing SafetyNet on you, it's app developers insisting you need some special end user setup
> What's SafetyNet have to do with anything?
I thought I made that pretty clear in my post. I was addressing a post about competitors to Android facing challenges because of lack of app support from major companies.
SafetyNet helps Google maintain their mobile OS duopoly with Apple by preventing other mobile operating systems from running Android apps, despite there not being any technical reason why the apps can't run on other operating systems.
Steam was able to bring Windows games over to Linux via Proton because of projects like WINE. SafetyNet precludes running Android apps on devices and operating systems Google doesn't approve of.
Microsoft was able to bring Linux apps over to Windows via WSL 1 & 2. SafetyNet precludes running Android apps on Windows unless Google gives Windows a pass in their DRM.
For me it isn't really the tech companies that need to buy in to make an alternative phone OS viable, but things like banks. Online mobile banking is one of the main things I use my phone for after web browsing and messaging. The probability that it won't work on some third OS is what puts me off trying some of the alternatives.
You can download the source, modify it, and build them all freely. Hopefully more people can get involved and move the needle instead of only lamenting how they don't succeed while not actively trying to help them succeed. I mean this in a respectful way.
That's totally fair. I don't really have the time or Java/Kotlin/mobile familiarity to jump in here, and these aren't skills I can easily apply elsewhere in my career, personally.
> LineageOS has been going for quite a while now, CalyxOS is relatively new, and GrapheneOS (previously CopperheadOS)
My impression of these OSes is that they still rely on Google Play Services - or if not, micro-G which has many shortcomings. When most of the ecosystem doesn't work until you invite Google back in, it doesn't seem like a true alternative IMO.
Admittedly I haven't personally tried running any of them. Which one would you recommend trying if I were aiming to rid myself of Google's omnipresence?
I have used CalyxOS and it's a great os. I did use microG and 98% of the apps I use worked flawlessly. If you have a supported phone, I'd definitely give it a shot.
Graphene does not require Play Services, but it only runs on a small subset of Android phones that are ~$500+ here (heavily discouraged to use anything older than 4a 5G)
GrapheneOS.org
Have a source for them sending less data? Even if it were true, the use of that data differs.
None of the apps on Amazon App Store or F-Droid use Google Play Services.
If you can't see the value apple offers, that's fine, but to be blind to what they offer others seems odd.
I've yet to be scammed by apple's app store. Ie, I can cancel my subscriptions easily, bad apps you can even get a refund on if prompt etc.
I have been repeatedly screwed by websites run by developers outside of apple. These websites have been LOADED with trackers, they have impossible to cancel subscriptions, they do all sorts of dirty tricks (I'm tired of the intercom type follow-up emails - sorry I missed you, give me one last chance etc).
I get it, the dog eat dog crapfest is appealing to some, but Apple offers an alternative, and for some people that has value. And yes, I get it, the folks making these eye blinding slow websites have lots to say about apple, but my weather app opens promptly on apple, whereas the ad littered weather pages online bog my machine (with 100x the memory) down.
It's especially pronounced in Apple-related threads (one of the few topics that I browse HN for as there are a lot of topics I have no experience or expertise in) where all the nuance seems to have been zapped away as of late. It's either you're a complete Apple hater or a complete Apple fanboi and there's no in-between anymore. I have lots of criticisms of Apple but it seems like there's nowhere to discuss them anymore because they're immediately taken over by "Apple wants to scan your phone" and "Apple is suing mom and pop repair shops" or other hot takes that completely misunderstand their situations.
The scan your phone, repairs shops should be able to fake battery replacements or change faceID sensors without controls type stuff is also in this, or no reason for apple to make certain decisions (despite obvious reasons) etc.
It's gotten to just BLIND reaction - ie, apple is done when reality is apple remains far more trusted than almost any other company (or govt) brand wise.
But, IIUC, both of those are completely true.
Just some examples:
- Integration between their devices cannot be matched by others
- Apple Watch has the largest app collection, great integration between iOS and Watch apps, smooth animations/UX, the most accurate GPS of smart watches
- Handover of AirPods between Apple devices is a lot better than with other Bluetooth headphones
- (subjective) iOS has a lot better UX/animations than Android
Nothing matches it. I had some minor issues setting up my newly purchased M1 from an Intel backup, but it was quickly fixed when I updated the OS.
Always, always, always use a directly connected external hard dive. The networked version is terrible.
Nobody.