It wasn't really a fair experiment if you wanted the outcome to be positive. This is how it works. There might have been many who were gaming it; Odio is facing the backlash only because he admitted to it.
I think that it is possible to believe that Sam’s action was part of the experiment and also repugnant.
It would only have been repugnant if Jonathan requested people not to do what Sam did. But the game had no rules and what is deemed a good or bad outcome is purely subjective. Who's to say free coffee for some is better than charity with this experiment?
Just because the majority dream this specific experiment to be something that it isn't doesn't mean someone who comes along and dashes those dreams is an asshole.
If you want his actions to be deemed repugnant, then setup a new Jonathan's Card experiment, define the rules the way you want with the no-scraping clause. Then wait until Sam breaks those rules. Then you can call his actions repugnant.
EDIT: I'll admit it's probably not the nicest thing to do if he knew that people (wrongly) assumed their donated money would go to buying coffee for others. But the risks were clearly defined and anyone donating money should have realized that their money is actually going to the experiment, and not necessarily to buying coffee for someone.
We have to disentangle asshole/nice guy from legal/illegal. Being an asshole in business is legal. But that doesn’t mean it’s not repugnant. Sure, we can say that Sam has not broken Jonathan’s law, and we can argue that he doesn’t need to reverse his transactions legally.
We can also argue that he was or was not acting like an asshole. Perhaps he wasn’t. But the question of whether his actions were in accordance with the “rules of the game” has very little bearing on whether they are repugnant.
>But the question of whether his actions were in accordance with the “rules of the game” has very little bearing on whether they are repugnant.
If you break an explicit rule or request, then it's clear that you knew you were being an asshole, doing things other people don't want. When that rule is not explicit, it's hard to say if you knew you were being an asshole. The rules weren't explicit, and could have very easily specified not to scrape.
If Sam took advantage of anyone it would have been naive experiment participants who donated money under the false assumption it would be used for a specific purpose. But even then, Sam's actions could be interpreted as Robin Hood-esque by some.
There is NO DOUBT, from the view point of the supposed victims that Sam's actions are repugnant because they go against what they wished, but so did the people who Robin Hood robbed from I bet. However, from a more global perspective, who's to say they're repugnant? Assume some of that Stark Card money actually reached some unfortunate children in the third world and made their lives slightly better... Would a non-victim really believe that to be a worse appropriation of that money than buying coffee for some first-world person (assuming the money actually reached those kids)? Many would argue that is a better use of the money, regardless of what the original experiment participants expected the money to be used for, because the experiment participants wrongly assumed in the first place.
There is no law against slamming the door close before the person behind you can enter. Are people wrong in believing that such behavior is rude?
I think the belief that only following rules is enough to earn the right to never be perceived as an asshole is fundamentally flawed. There is nothing wrong with being disgusted by Sam’s actions, even if there weren’t any rules telling him not to do what he did.
What he did was repugnant and part of the experiment. My reaction here is also part of the experiment.
So why do they keep letting players do that? Are they requested not to do that? If so, then it is slightly different from Sam's situation. It would be similar if Jonathan had requested people not to do what Sam did. Not punished != not a rule.
> There is no law against slamming the door close before the person behind you can enter. Are people wrong in believing that such behavior is rude?
You shouldn't assume such behavior has ill intentions. If you don't like it, ask the person to stop doing it. Then and only then if he/she keeps doing it, you can call him an asshole.
Someone is not an asshole simply for doing something you don't like. You have to dig into the intentions.
In the case of the door, just imagine you had eye contact with the person who slammed the door and he grinned. At that point I’m perfectly willing to infer the intention and consider the behavior rude.
Sam Odio has written a lot about his intentions, those aren’t really the issue. They are public and clear and I’m disgusted by them. Simple as that. “But it’s an experiment” completely misses the point.
And the reason for that is because things considered repugnant by some may not be to others!
> In the case of the door, just imagine you had eye contact with the person who slammed the door and he grinned. At that point I’m perfectly willing to infer the intention and consider the behavior rude.
You'd still be guessing. Confront him. Unless he's mentally retarded you'd probably get a clear response from him if you did so. Don't be passive aggressive.
If you donated money and Sam used them in ways you did not approve of, then you can consider his actions repugnant.
From an outside perspective, I do not find his actions repugnant. I believe his re-appropriation of the money to be better than buying coffee for others and really there was no indication that people would respond so negatively to money helping save the children...
Imagine if I were walking down the street and there is this box filled with cash right next to a ferris wheel, implying (to most people) that I should take this generously donated money and experience the ferris wheel for free. However I instead take that money and give it to some homeless people.
To the people who donated money thinking it would pay for the ferris wheel, I'm an asshole. To others, it's a much grayer area depending on whether or not ferris wheel is better than homeless people.
Not only did Sam not break explicit rules, but he didn't do something universally repugnant. If he had actually bought and kept an iPad, that would probably be universally repugnant. Coffee for strangers >> iPad for self. But Coffee for strangers > saving the children? Gray area. If you don't want the money to be donated to third world children, then just ask. But if you don't make such clear requests then you can't claim such an alternative outcome (which to some is actually a better use of the money) is an asshole move.
Hitler probably didn't like Americans (for attacking him), that doesn't make Americans assholes just because the Americans had an aggressive attitude.
From what I've read I do think this guy would have broken an explicit request concerning scraping; he seems like just another crook that believes they are innocent and always has an excuse.
Experiment as in experimental and beta, novel, new, interesting. Not experiment as in 'how much pressure can I apply to this before it breaks'. A misunderstanding that causes these name calling now..