This is bollocks.
Pre-Delta, if double vaccinated the vaccines are about 95% effective against severe illness and death. Post Delta, about 92%.
That's still incredible, and actually pretty high as vaccines go.
This is the CDC study that confirmed this (plus summarization): https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1436389153533464597?la... This cross validates the finding from the MN DPH and Israel MOH report on pfizer from June.
Moderna came on top with a VE of 95% under delta.
If you didn't read this: You should still be vaccinated. If you're under Pfizer wear KN95s, KF94s, and N95s. This not an arguement against vaccination.
Pfizer might drop with Delta, true, but then the decrease is reversed. https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143849966572136858...
Other credible studies don't even show such a drop. https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/143995143783290061...
Frankly I wonder if the drop is just a statistical blip, corrected with a reversion to the mean.
> You should still be vaccinated. [...] This not an arguement against vaccination
Agreed. Nice to have a nuanced discussion with people who understand the importance of vaccination.
Breakthrough infection and breakthrough disease are entirely different things.
Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were, they were either very old or had a severe immune deficiency.
Mostly frail and obese ofcourse but that is pretty much the same as the unvaccinated account. We had to go back to our modest restrictions even with a very high vaccination rate because of this.
On a side note, I am on of the 20000 Icelanders that got full double moderna inocculation and I suffered through the absolute worst nights of my life after the second dose. Took about one month to recover. But I digress.
I have to admit that I am nervous about the winter surge. Our hospital system is full to the brink with non covid patients. Its now in a much worse state than it was during the entire past 18 panic months of lockdown and masks.
Mostly frail elderly that we do not have any other beds in nursing homes for. Not a single fucking mention og hospital collapse though. We have patiens in staff breakrooms becuse the hospital is so full.
The fancy reporting of the fantastic vaccine efficacy actually translated to about half of what the medical companies promised. We are potentially looking at yet another lockdown winter because we have almost no natural immunity ( which is recognized in Iceland as far superiour to vaccine immunity) and our shit healthcare system is already in deep trouble.
The mainstream medias, blatant lies, are easy to verify in Iceland because we are such a tiny homogenous population with very good concise records.
Look at our actual data on covid.is.
I'm sorry you had that experience. I have a friend who had a similar experience (4 agonizing days) after his second Moderna dose and swore the he will not get a third one. Based on that I have to believe it was truly awful.
One the other hand I have several other friends who were quite fine afer Moderna. I wish we had the means to distinguish between the two groups, so nobody else has to endure what you did.
Imagine there are 100 vaccinated and 5 unvaccinated vulnerable people, and all of them are exposed to covid. At 95% effectiveness against hospitalization, you'd have 5 vaccinated and 5 unvaccinated, i.e 50-50. The OP is referring to places with lower percentages of vaccinated than Iceland.
No, it's better than you think. According to my favourite immunologist, Iceland reports vaccine effectiveness of 60% against ANY infection and 90% against severe disease. See thread at https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/142761414521455002....
> and our emergency ICU filled up with plenty of fully vaccinated persons
Yes, because sadly lots of people caught COVID, not because vaccines don't work.
It's worth remembering, also, that vaccination reduces transmission, in turn reducing severe cases.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...
Listen to the dog that is not barking.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions...
My grandfather was vaccinated, but is immuno-deficient, and just caught it from a visit to the hospital. Between his age, and the state of his immune system, he was at death's door for two weeks.
If the hospital weren't full of unvaccinated COVID patients to begin with, it's far less likely he would have picked it up there (He doesn't exactly leave the house, except to go the doctor.)
As it turns out, the prevalence of the former leads to the latter.
Evidence:
"New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated, though in the vaccinated, these levels rapidly diminish. There is also some question about how cultivatable—or viable—this virus retrieved from vaccinated people actually is. " [1]
"Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission." [2]
[1] https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-trans...
[2] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733
NHS numbers has vaccinated dying at >~60%
Maybe you should reconsider the biases of your sources, and ask if they are conflating correlation with causation: Israel[1], Ireland [2], The UK [3]
I recognize that it is most probable that the most vulnerable are likely getting vaxxed, and likely to get a breakthrough also.
[1] https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-...
[2] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-...
[3] https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vacci...
"pandemic of the vaccinated" or ADE, you tell me which.
[1] https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/09/08/pandemic-of-...