Hacker News Reader

Comment by evercast | Hacker News Reader

You have "like 20 different credit cards"? I live in Europe and I don't know anybody who would have more than 4-6 cards total. Granted, it's an anecdotal proof, but I really have hard time imagining any of my friends having more than 8 cards in their wallets. Is it somehow a US thing?

View on HN

My Danish bank has to tell customers that "it is a good idea to have at least 2 cards, as you will otherwise have a hard time if your only card gets blocked for some reason".

So in Denmark many see no reason to more than a single card.

BTW. We don't have a concept like "credit score" at all.

I'm not in the US (HK) but me and a quite a few people I know have a dozen cards or more. I only regularly use 2-3 of them but the rest are useful for various occasions.

eg, Card A has no overseas transaction fees and has good exchange rate so I use it when travelling. Card B is same but I set a ridiculously low credit limit so I can use it in dodgy souvenir shops without worry. Card C gives airport lounge access. Card D gives free magazine and bottled water in the airport post-security areas. Card E grants access to clubhouses that are normally members-only, which I use for business meetings. Card F gets discounts for movie tickets, Card G to H gives free coffee upgrade from different chains, etc. And then there are a bunch that was pushed onto me when I got mortgage or a investment funds, that I never bothered to cancel since there's no annual fees and occasionally they'd have a promotion where it's actually useful.

I wouldn't want to carry all these physical cards, so I don't have them "in my wallet" per se, which is why it's nice to be able to add them all to my phone.

Exactly! The Chase cards I've mentioned are actually different, too, and give different benefits. I don't even churn them per se — there's still a benefit to keep all of them open longer term, because either there's no annual fee, or the AF is worth the benefits. Plus you get extra credit score benefits for the age of accounts.

Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things. Southwest card nets me miles for flying, Chase cards get me points on certain things, etc. Suddenly you have tons of cards you cycle through to max out rewards to play the game. Also spread out your credit so you don't load up a single card with a heavy purchase.

If you're maximizing like this, though, you're likely to still have a small handful of daily drivers - a 2% general purpose card, a dining/grocery card, maybe a gas card.

My airline and hotel cards aren't in Apple Pay because they're largely worthless in-person. Same for my Amazon credit card; 5% back on everything Amazon, but I don't need it physically with me ever.

Sure, but the point is, do I want to carry 20 cards with me, when I can carry one phone? Similar to the Coin card RIP. I need my southwest card, costco, chase, chase debit, apple card, amex, etc on my person, just to name a few.

That's six, and you probably need the physical card for the debit for ATM access anyways. If you're in the Chase ecosystem, you're probably better off using the Chase cards and transferring to Southwest as a transfer partner, too, as you'll get better earn rates on every category than using the airline card itself.

Quite a few cards are worth having, but only in the sock drawer most of the time.

Don't all ATMs support contactless these days? I used ATM with contactless. So, no, you don't. You just need a good phone that doesn't have arbitrary restrictions.

In the US? I haven't come across a single one yet.

Every Wells Fargo ATM I've used for the last couple years accepts contactless.

Yes. Many/most Wells Fargo ATMs have had contactless for several years now. Their Android app used to offer NFC contactless support so that you never had to even use Google's Android Pay to use contactless.

I think they originally didn't work with contactless Android Pay, maybe because the card number is different, but it's been fixed a few years ago. They also have the app-based ATM login, so I don't recall ever using the physical WF debit card in the last X years.

Every Chase ATM I've used recently in California, Nevada, Colorado and Florida had contactless support on the ATM. I even pulled out large amounts of money via contactless without issue.

>Maybe? Getting a bunch of cards works out in your favor. Costco card nets me 4% back on gas everywhere and 2% in store and extends the warranty on things.

That's one way of looking at it. The other is that debt is priced in everything and you're just recouping part of it.

Am I supposed to just stop eating food and buying gas? I don't understand what you're trying to say. If the alternative is pay cash and not get these benefits the only other logical reason for your statement is that I have a choice in the matter to not do these things.

No, what I'm trying to say isn't that your decision-making is flawed, but that there's little decision-making involved and that you're driven into that path by the way the system is structured in the US. You guys are being forced into a situation where the most rational decision is to have a dozen credit cards to optimize for an arcane rule-set.

It's pretty f*cked.

It's not uncommon to be able to collect more value from the rewards than what it costs for the merchant to accept the credit card.

For example, it often costs 3% or less to accept payment for a merchant, but there are many cards which offer rewards that can be valued at 7.5% cashback, or even higher values if you're into chic travel.

For example, many people have more than one of the same card, e.g., Chase Freedom is a popular example. By having 3 cards, you can increase the quarterly limit on the product by 3x — similar to using extra threads on a multicore CPU — it's still the same system, so there's no extra inconvenience. Since they're all from the same issuer, having any number of Chase cards is a fixed cost for the user, because all of them appear in a single account login, and can also be set to have identical due dates, too. Likewise, Google Pay and Chase have no limits to the number of cards you can add to a digital wallet, so, it works out there, too.

It's amazing how so many iPhone users project the perceived inconvenience of this approach, but there's actually no inconvenience for Android users, since Android's NFC is open and doesn't have any limits.

Also don't forget AARP is open to everyone. I'm 33 and a member.

I am in EU and have debit and credit cards in UK and EU and business account in EU. Also because in some places only Maestro is accepted I have maestro and MasterCard debit separately…

Because of travel I also have transferwise money anywhere card.

Yeah most people here have just one.

A lot of people chase sign up bonuses. Some credit cards have sign up bonuses equivalent to $1000+. So sign up for a year, and then cancel. Also our credit score systems consider number of open accounts, and anything less than 10 is considered as having too few accounts.

There's diminishing returns (credit score wise) on open accounts once you're at three - ten is hardly necessary - and if you're churning, you don't need the churned card in Apple Pay long-term.

> anything less than 10 is considered as having too few accounts.

Source? I do not think any person reviewing people’s credit history would rate people higher for having 10 low barrier to entry revolving credit accounts rather than say 5 or even 3.

Different types of credit are weighted differently, so mortgage and auto and student and revolving credit card are not all seen the same, and I would not believe “more is better”, especially just for revolving credit lines for credit cards.

It's proprietary info, part of the scoring models. I think the magic number for best score is actually 20+, but it also counts the closed accounts over the last 7 to 10 years, too.

I recall seeing this in Credit Karma or maybe Experian's FreeCreditScore at one point (that you have to have 20 or 21 accounts for the best score), but cannot find it right now. I think it's a relatively well known number.

Credit Karmas business is collecting fees when people sign up for credit cards and lines of credit they push... they are hardly neutral.

Lol the US has a really weird credit rating system.

Here having no credit cards is best. Because not having to loan shows having the ability of being responsible financially.

Note: here in Europe we get no rewards or anything on credit cards. It's viewed more as a liability, not a virtue.

In fact my credit cards cost money in stamp duty, they don't ever gain me any.

Yep. That makes more sense. But here, they are basically looking at your ability to manage credit "responsibly" by looking at your payment history, and utilization, among other things.

So say if I spend $3000 a month, and pay it off every month in full, and my total credit limit is $10,000, they will ding me regardless of my payment history, because my utilization (30%+) is considered high. So if I want to maximize my credit score, it behooves me to get more cards (easiest way to increase total credit), and spread out the payments among them.

But if you are chasing sign up bonuses, that typically doesn’t happen all at once.

Assume you have a card for restaurants, one of travel, one for grocery’s, one for gas, one for entertainment and one catch all.

That’s 6. What else do you have a dedicated card for? 14 cards with sign up bonuses? All at the same time, each with minimum spending requirements to earn that bonus?

Let’s add some more. I have one card that pays $25 every quarter that I pay off in full every month so I use it once every month. I have a card with rotating categories. Even with multiple rotating categories I don’t see this going up past 12 cards.

Checking and savings debit cards, plus an HSA card add 3 more.

Sure, why do I need my savings account in my apple pay? Why did I put the plastic savings card into my physical wallet? Because that's where all of my other plastic cards are.

"The digital wallet should be able to hold all of my cards, even the ones I use infrequently" would certainly be my expectation.

So, basically, you're telling me I'm better off NOT storing my Hyatt, Marriott and IHG cards in my digital wallet only because I use them once every few years? Why exactly is that? Why not store all the cards in the digital wallet?

It's actually a really good idea, because it's a different account number they gets stored on the device, so, even if your hotel card is compromised because of the hotel leak, the copy in Google Pay will remain active and available. So, I could use it right away on the once-every-two-years bonus category without any extra hassle.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com