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Comment by drekipus | Hacker News Reader

Good thing that everyone's getting depressed! A brain implant has come to the rescue! Now if we could only find a wealthy entity who could be a good Samaritan and help fund it for the people who need it most ...

Never mind that "cackling laughter" isn't a sign that depression is gone, nor is depression a bad thing on the whole. The causes for depression are well known, so why are we trying to electrocute our brain into not acting in it's own best interests?

This whole study is completely absurd.

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> Good thing that everyone's getting depressed!

> [snip] nor is depression a bad thing on the whole.

> The causes for depression are well known, so why are we trying to electrocute our brain into not acting in it's own best interests?

While I agree with the sentiment that this study isn't a great study, these three remarks and the tone of your comment make it clear you have zero personal experience with depression. I hope you never experience it- it's hell. No amount of descriptive imagery or keen adjectives can ever convey what it actually feels like, so I understand how people who've never been in its jaws can be so dismissive. After all, just like it's hard to tell that stuffed inside a ballerina's blood-filled shoes are cramped, broken, _aching_ feet, it's hard to wrap your head around pain that isn't readily seen, much less try to empathize with the person feeling it. So I get it. I understand why you're so dismissive.

The only way I can think of to describe depression is to describe suicidal ideation: when you have a moment, go to your garage, get a hammer, and smash your thumb with it. Not a pleasant thought, right? I'd be willing to bet that if you were to legitimately try, you'd find it almost impossible; the instinct for self preservation is one of the most basic, powerful instincts. Now, imagine a situation where you're in so much pain that this instinct is completely overwhelmed and you actively try to kill yourself to stop it, a situation where you cannot believe you'll ever be able to be happy again, a situation that feels truly hopeless. That's depression. While suicidal ideation is one of the extremes, depression is something that drives a person to that point.

In all honesty, I sincerely hope neither you nor your loved ones ever have to face such despair. "That they experienced loss is not a gain, and that they experienced pain is not a victory."

It's possible to express a negative view about a technology without diminishing the struggles of the people it's intended to help. A little kindness goes a long way.

I have personal experience with severe depression. I fully agree with GP. It is dangerous to assume others' life experiences.

Depression, like most other forms pain, is a warning signal. Unplugging warning signals usually leads to problems.

I highly recommend The Depressed Person by David Foster Wallace

> you have zero personal experience with depression. I hope you never experience it- it's hell.

Do not even begin to assume what I have been through. The difference you might be failing to realise in your long essay on the behalf of others is that to go "through" something is to come out the other side.

You've already made your assumptions so I highly doubt you'll listen to me much further, not do I want to gain "e-points" by listing out all my ailments. I can assure you however, that I have received professional help for both depression and other mental conditions in my life.

The difference being, that my doctors and I were able to look at the root causes, and able to work out of it. Meds were weaned off as soon as I was put on them, and not looked at as a source of pharmacy income the rest of my life. Nor, now, a brainwashing device that can zap you for your hourly dose of Facebook ads. Thanks science.

By a large margin, the reason people get depressed is because their life is at odds with their expectations. The father is depressed because they want freedom. The teen is depressed because they want to feel genuine love, etc.

The only way out of that is to calm (which meds can temporarily help) then figure out a plan to make the life they do want, then actively working towards that, while managing expectations and inevitable disappointments. Sunlight and physical activity goes a long way in putting the body's regulation system back into action.

Everyone just gets stuck up on "ok, meds." And don't follow through with the rest of it - actually improve your life - and expects everything to be better somehow. Painkillers while keeping the hand on the stove.

Tldr get fuxked

It's not the conclusions I've drawn based on your own dismissive words that will prevent me from putting stock in what you say, it's the way you seem to believe that it's impossible for others to have experiences that differ from yours. I'm not the only one making assumptions here, the difference is that I'm making assumptions about you based on what you say- you're making assumptions about the whole of humanity based on your own experience. It really blows my mind that you're convinced that what worked for you is a panacea. Of course, saying things like "Tldr get fuxked" doesn't lend your words any strength either, so I guess I shouldn't be so surprised at such a limited perspective; forgive me if I stop giving you my attention. I hope you have a pleasant day nonetheless- best of luck to you and your loved ones.

If i asked you to point out a flaw in my reasoning you'd say "but I'm not well versed in the /science/" - I'm making assumptions based purely off that /science/.

If you're saying that it's all just goobly-gook and random chance and everyone's different then I'd see that you'd have no problem injecting yourself with microchips to make yourself feel better, tailored by your ad preferences.

It really blows my mind that you're thinking this is the most valiant hill to die on; like depression is some great enigma that's plagued humanity. It's as common as a headache. People like you stop others from getting better. "yeah you're right, some people are unsavable, definitely need meds. meds are the only way out right now. no don't listen to others who've gotten better. some people definitely have no hope and definitely need meds"

> why are we trying to electrocute our brain into not acting in it's own best interests?

Depression leads to suicide. The indirect suggestion that suicide is in a person's best interest is ridiculous.

That's as silly as saying a headache causes you to chop your head off.

If you look at a screen all day, and get a headache, what do you do. Painkillers and back to the screen? Drink water and rest a bit? Pull out a hacksaw?

If you liken depression to a headache, it demonstrates we're not talking about the same thing. Depression is not the same as sadness.

Analogies only take us so far, but a far better one would be physical pain so severe that, like severely depressed patients, the victims want to kill themselves to end it. Think torture, which is often how depressed patients describe their own intrusive thoughts.

Well, it's an N-1 study/case report. The next step is to get Francis Collins or Elon to cough up another R01 grant's worth of monopoly bux to fund the larger trial...

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