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Comment by adambard | Hacker News Reader

The comparison between PHP and frameworks isn't valid. Writing PHP on a framework probably abstracts away SQL too, just like writing CGI in Python gives you lower-level control.

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When frameworks are the popular alternative to PHP (RoR,Django,etc), it is valid.

Are we also not allowed to talk about RoR when it comes to a discussion about PHP alternatives?

That is like saying Cocoa is a popular alternative to C++, but you prefer C++ because it allows you to write your own UI event loop.

I guess it is true if you really stretch your imagination, but does it mean anything?

Yes, when I write a web app, I don't want to be stuck with extra code that abstracts away the database into a less-efficient object/class and forces me to break the convention of the framework to write the code that I need.

I suppose it's fine when many of then newer programmers don't even know or understand what's going on underneath anyway...

It's a bit comparing apples to oranges. If you were comparing say Cake or Zend to RoR and Django then it would be a reasonable comparison.

It's not really apples and oranges - writing a website in raw Ruby is not a very feasible or popular option, whereas writing a website in raw PHP is. It is valid to compare writing a site in PHP and writing a website in Rails. It is also valid to compare writing one in Cake vs. RoR, as well as Cake vs. raw PHP (or a custom PHP framework, which is what raw PHP inevitably becomes in a sufficiently large project).

It doesn't stop the hordes of programmers on HN talking about Ror and Django and Cherry pi as an alternative to PHP.

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