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Comment by bobbylarrybobby | Hacker News Reader

Forget the overheating — the fact that Macs will save all your work when shutting down, and will refuse to shut down if this is not possible (for instance if some app that doesn’t support autosave (MS office) has unsaved work, or if there are terminal jobs running). Can’t imagine how anyone tolerates their computer just obliterating their work.

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You're kidding right? I hate that behaviour of MacOS. If I told the OS to shut down/restart, I meant it. Kill everything and get on with it, I shouldn't have to babysit.

If I told it to update, I didn't mean "oh pretty please but if it's too hard don't worry about it", I meant "I know this ii. update is going to take an hour for a point release for some reason, but I'm going for a walk now - go ahead so IT gets off my back".

Also I've had many issues with my macbook overheating/discharging in my bag because I hit sleep, it looked like it was sleeping, but it was still on/woke up. Admittedly not a huge amount because of COVID but still.

Just killing all apps is a very hostile default for a consumer OS. You might be able to force a restart from the terminal if you really don’t care about data integrity though.

Can’t you just wait two minutes for it yo cycle through all open apps and click “don’t save”/“terminate” on all of them?

But why isn't there simply a Terminate All button?

It's the power button, just force instant power off if you don't mind an integrity check at next startup!

there is, sort of, but it's got one or two extra steps (and most folks probably don't know it exists).

1. Press Cmd+Option+Escape to bring up the Force Quit menu

2. Press Cmd+A to select all running apps

3. Click the "Force Quit" Button to force quit all apps

And then it doesn’t work, so after half an hour of staring at a grey screen, you give up and hold down the power button.

Why wait at all in that case and not just hold down the power button right away?

Made me think about a system we have to enter notes in at work. It'll kick you out with 10 minutes of inactivity. But it won't tell you it's kicked you out. You just go to save your notes and it puts you to a login screen, discarding everything you've typed.

That would cause me to edit my notes in notepad and then copy past them when done.

Unsaved work should be a concern of the app, not the OS. The app should obey the commands of the OS, and handle auto-saving on its own to keep fulfilling its duties to the user.

Apps that let you risk losing work -- from not just shutdowns but crashes and power outages - are the ones I don't tolerate. It's one of the reason I use Sublime Text for taking notes for example.

VSCode has excellent work preservation. I’ve had multiple Windows in VSCode open for months, with many “unsaved” documents open, and it always reloads everything after reboots and shutdowns.

So just like Windows since... 7? Or something like that.

I can guarantee you that a Mac will still shut down when its battery is empty. Unfortunately Apple hasn't yet cracked unlimited power.

Windows will routinely shut itself down to do updates and obliterate things that have not saved.

> I can guarantee you that a Mac will still shut down when its battery is empty.

Macs "safe sleep" --- when they sleep, they save a hibernation/ram state too. So if the battery is depleted, they still do not shut down.

I'm probably going back to MacOS after my current Windows 10 machine, because too many annoyances have shown up (and now ESC keys exist again).

Macs sleep on low battery, then hibernate RAM contents to disk when really really empty. You never lose data.

Right, so the same as Windows.

A common theme I've noticed with the most ardent mac fans is they haven't used a windows machine since windows 95 and seem to think osx has all these magic features windows users are missing out on.

I use mac and windows daily, and they both have similar amounts of annoying niggling features.

I've used Windows in its most recent Version on a high-end Dell issued by my company and can confirm all reports here about losing data and overheating. The Macbook simply works out of box but i can't get the Windows Machine to work in a sane way without 50/50 chance of losing all battery or data after closing the lid...

I have noticed the same thing with Mac fans. Another meme from the past which needs to die is that Mac has better user interface. There are so many annoying and missing UI issues in Mac and dare I say Windows has better UI for some aspects of the OS than Mac.

Yeah mac is a mixed bag, eg. preview is awesome, finder absolutely sucks.

Unless it wakes for some weird reason, or does auto update and blows everything away which has been the general jist of this thread

Yeah I see lots of people complaining about that. Kinda weird since I've literally never had it happen to me on any of my windows machines.

funny

I was using an iPad Pro and I thought something in the Apple Notes app was good. Poof. Never found the file after.

MS Windows does the same thing with Hibernate.

Until it decides you must have this new update and reboots your machine at 2am for you

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