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Comment by filmgirlcw | Hacker News Reader

This is one of the main reasons I just returned my XPS 13 9310 and got a Framework instead. The sleep/standby/hibernate stuff is just bad. I don’t know if it is a Dell problem or a Windows problem or what, but it’s terrible.

I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.

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Yup, I bought that same model (to run Linux) on a long time reputation for Dell XPS on Linux and the power management is ridiculous. Absolutely terrible. Unplugged, mine won't hold a charge for more than a day unless it's shut all the way down. It loses something like 5% of battery power an hour. A buddy has one that's previous gen and it actually sleeps correctly.

Yeah, that’s the most frustrating thing, the prior models don’t seem to have this issue. It’s a shame because the laptop is so expensive, and it’s otherwise a beautiful device.

It's an Intel problem.

They just axed S3 sleep in the latest Tigerlake chips (which the 9310 use, and I assume Framework is using or will use in the future). You can't even workaround this by running Linux.

This more or less means that there isn't actually an alternative to modern standby other than hibernation at the hardware level any more (unless AMD continue to support it which there's a good chance of happening).

I'm on Arch, and it gets hot in my bag when in sleep mode. Hibernate is certainly good though, since it's basically powered off, but I haven't tested because in my experience hibernation on Linux is kinda finicky to get to work flawlessly

I ended up configuring my machine to suspend to disk when the power button is hit. I would agree with the hibernation function being finicky under Linux except I ran across similar behavior under Windows, so it probably has something to do with how power management is handled on PC hardware.

Yeah, I have a feeling it is probably issues with Windows and Windows drivers AND hardware issues in general, because I have problems in Linux too.

I feel like, at least with Dell, it’s a perfect storm of bad Windows power management policies/support, bad Windows drivers (from Dell or Microsoft or both), and generally bad hardware power management at a firmware level within Linux too.

I’ve certainly had some suspend/power management issues with other Windows laptops, but nothing like this Dell. I’m about to return the Dell (taking it back today in fact) and I had it closed on a desk, plugged in, but closed, and the fans started to go insane. I opened it up and my laptop had exited suspend mode and was in some weird Dell system setting scan that I hadn’t initiated and that wasn’t scheduled to run. This literally happened between when I made my first comment and now (I’m using a different device to comment).

Meanwhile, my Framework laptop might not be as good as my MacBook Pro, but when I close it, I don’t need to worry about it turning on in my bag or have it sitting on my desk.

So I blame Dell, Microsoft, and Dell again for bad power management, poor firmware, poor drivers, and lackluster OS support. Linux could probably get some blame too, but again, I tend to think it’s bad drivers and firmware more than anything.

It's definitely a Windows issue. I've had it with non-XPS Dells and completely different brands like Eluktronics.

Microsoft calls it a Windows Feature, though. Microsoft's Modern Standby is what causes this.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...

I have this issue with my Surface Book 2, everything is MS so there's no real excuse.

Didn't notice it in the first couple years of ownership, not sure if it was because my usage patterns changed or some not-so-helpful update that made it worse, but it's really absurd that I can't predict what will happen when I close the laptop.

I did something to disable network activity from interrupting standby, which reduced the issues a bit but not consistently.

I have this issue with my Razer Blade 15.. I've gotta used to carrying my laptop in my hands now so it's not quite so much of a problem.

It's not Windows (although Microsoft did basically force it to happen).

Intel have just removed S3 sleep from the latest Tigerlake chip so there isn't an alternative.

I got my first windows laptop in 1999 (Toshiba satellite), and had 4 subsequent one’s since including HP Elitebooks and Dell Latitude Pros, and on none of them could I close the lid at a moment’s notice and start moving. I have had an Intel MacBook Air since 7 years ago, and I have never not been able to close the lid at a moment’s notice and stuff it in my backpack and get going.

Most of my Windows laptops in the past would do this in a bag (e.g., Sony and Razor). I'd pin it on Windows, not saying it happens to all Windows laptops but Windows allows it to happen. It knows to sleep when shut, but somehow spins back up in the bag.

Same happened to me with HP and thinkpad laptops.

I know this is not sufficient evidence of the contrary, but my HP Envy 15z x360 (the one with the Ryzen 2500u processor) seems to hibernate as expected with the lid shut. Zero battery usage while hibernating on my desk or in my bag for days at a time.

Granted, this laptop is more than a couple years old at this point, so it is possible it is completely unaffected.

I primarily use MacOS and just don't understand how this can still be a seemingly common problem in 2021, when most of the world uses laptops. Shouldn't this be a top priority for Microsoft and for vendors?

Apparently it isn't, which may explain why almost every quarter Apple reports year-over-year gains in laptop sales.

If I were the boss at Microsoft, this would become a top priority. Immediately.

My MacBook Pro (2019) occasionally does this as well. I close the lid in the office, put it in my bag. When I take it out at home it’s turned off due to overheating and the battery is dead. The cause is some background process that’s preventing it going into hibernation when the lid is closed.

It happens with macbooks for me if using an sd card. It started doing it only after an update a few years back.

Agreed. This happened with my Dell laptops, ROG laptops, and Thinkpads. It's just a Windows problem.

This is about the tenth time I’ve seen someone reference a framework laptop in the last couple of days.

Is it a new company?

Framework just started shipping their hardware, so perhaps all these mentions are people that have received their preorders (or read about people receiving their preorders). https://frame.work/

Laptop company that famous youtuber invested in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_Computer

https://frame.work/

Definitely considering it when my current X1 carbon will trespass into laptops Valhalla.

https://frame.work

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light...

Yes - https://frame.work/laptop ... Their claim to fame is their highly repairable, modular laptop that you can assemble like desktop computers.

Yes and I preordered one specifically because I want a first-class linux supported laptop with repair-ability in mind.

As far as I can tell it is living up to its hype.

1400 hn comments the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28606962

This always happened with my Surface Book, a flagship Microsoft made device. I could never trust it in my backpack. WTF msft.

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