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Comment by pphysch | Hacker News Reader

US, Germany, Russia, Brazil, China, India, etc.

The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive. I'm sure plenty of them would work for pennies rather than rot in a cell.

The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself. But that requires far more investigation to establish than pearl-clutching about the universal practice of "forced labor".

But if there is a legit criminal behind bars, I would like to hear reasons why they shouldn't be able to work in a highly controlled, safe workplace.

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> The truth is that giving convicted prisoners opportunities to work is probably a big net positive.

The fact that you used the word "opportunities" to described "forced" really demonstrates the problem with the line of reasoning used to justify forced labor.

Forced labor is wrong. Always. Period.

> I would like to hear reasons why they shouldn't be able to work in a highly controlled, safe workplace.

Sure, if someone is in prison they should be able to work. They should have the choice to work. As soon as the labor is forced, then it is unacceptable, immoral, and anyone defending it is wrong.

> than pearl-clutching about the universal practice of "forced labor".

So it's because everyone does it that it's "ok", then?

Or because you think it's better than "rotting in a cell"?

Whatever man. The issue is that the labour is _forced_. Give prisoners a choice to work or not and pay them, at market value, for their work.

If you're against choice and pay for prisoners you really shouldn't be embarrassed to just go ahead and call it what it is: slavery.

The allegation that Xinjiang has prisons and are allowing prisoners to work is almost certainly true. Like virtually every other major economy.

The allegation that the Xinjiang prisoners are actually innocent people being ethnically/religiously cleansed and forced into slavery has extremely little basis in reality, relying completely on claims from a tiny, unaccountable clique of Washington DC based ideologues (Zenz, et al) and ETIM lobbyists (WUC, et al).

However, the article deceptively uses the banal truth of the first allegation as a vehicle to imply that truth of the second, far more extreme allegation. These are classic disinformation methods employed to achieve political agendas.

Entire university department professors have been wiped out and sent to prison https://shahit.biz/supp/list_003.pdf

They should be paid market rate for their labor. Why should prison take away your basic financial rights.

Edit: it's disgusting to me that anyone downvoted this. what do you believe, if not that people have a right to the fruits of their labor, even as criminals? believing otherwise is believing in slavery and exploitation.

It shouldn't also take away from the rights of others. When prison labor is obtained below minimum wage, or under conditions or terms that workers would not accept, you hurt low income workers and drive down their wages in aggregate.

In my opinion, prison labor should only be used for public works. Cleaning up parks and that sort of thing. Giving a captive labor stream to private enterprise is only good for the owners of the select few firms who can take advantage of it.

I agree with the sentiment but it should be pointed out that even public works have to pay their workers at market rates when there are no forced laborers (so: most of the time). Throwing a bunch of forced laborers at public works kind of screws over the average Joe that used to do that for pay.

So, like you say, it shouldn't take away from the rights of others. Just pay the prisoners just like you'd pay any other worker regardless of the kind of job.

> The root of the problem is if there is injustice in sentencing or coercive work conditions. Not the work itself.

lol what? they're in a cage guarded by men with guns. what about that could possibly be anything other than "coercive?"

"Coercitive" would be something like "you make N license plate a day or don't get food".

"If you accept to do non-mandatory work in exchange of money/reduced sentence" it will be your choice.

another way to rephrase that is "if you choose not to work, you will stay in prison for longer." sounds pretty coercive to me!

Not longer that your original sentence though.

Yeah, prisons generally have armed guards.

I think they should be able to work if they want.

I just don't want private entities profiting off prisoners our taxes house.

I agree completely. Any prison labor programs should be entirely in the public sector.

A d pay the federal minimum wage

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