Comment by AnotherGoodName | Hacker News Reader

Comment by AnotherGoodName | Hacker News Reader

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AnotherGoodName

>And actually, more than that, lots of what goes wrong is not just that productivity geekery doesn't work, it’s that it makes things worse, right

A lot of good points here. I figured this out myself ages ago and have done well to actively halt the 'only do things that are maximally productive' behaviors that actually cripple any productivity at all.

As one example amongst many: I wasn't taking the garbage out until the mail arrived. Because that was optimal! Maximize efficiency! Except it doesn't really help. Taking out the garbage takes 20seconds. Going to the mailbox and bringing in mail? 20 seconds. Doing them together and juggling bins, mail and doors? Over a minute. Not to mention the many minutes of distraction from the mental weight of a chore needing to be done. It's only theoretically optimal and the theorizing part itself is crippling.

Likewise I'd let myself get crippled by 'there's a meeting in 20minutes'. I'm sure it's a huge problem for others in the wfh era. I wouldn't start washing the dishes because i might be in the middle of it when i need meet with others and then with the stop and start that'd be less than optimal. But doing the dishes, even if slow turns out to be a 10 minute chore. I should have just done it. But i procrastinated because theory crafting told me that it'd be slightly less than optimal to do it now. Meanwhile i just waste those 20minutes on Hackernews. Even being less optimal i'm always better of doing it now.

It's definitely helpful to be aware of these behaviors. I think the focus on maximizing productivity affects the geek types more but it's absolutely crippling to let yourself go down these paths. Don't do it and you'll be better off and more productive.

> Meanwhile i just waste those 20minutes on Hackernews.

Practically every "productivity hack" is less effective than simply dropping all lowish-value Web browsing and doing almost anything else instead.

One thing that amazes me is how many of even the most-effective people I know seem to spend multiple hours a day doing low-value web browsing. Is it actually impossible to avoid that temptation? Or are there people who manage it but they're just living in a different world than I am?

The Web has a strange way of feeling both important and interesting while, on reflection, not really being either. There's some kind of time-eating black magic at work—and that's before something like TikTok or Facebook get involved, where there's no mystery about why they have the effect they do.

One of the most important ideas I‘ve come across in the last few days while doing low-value browsing on HN was an insight shared by Rich Hickey: „A computer is the absolute worst place to do thinking“. I think it was in his talk „Hammock driven development“. I actually installed a hammock in my office yesterday because of it. It takes self-control to actually go over and use it. And to leave my phone at the desk, too. But once I do, I profit tremdenously. I get ideas. I see the big picture. I get energized again.

I walk to a family dollar that’s 30 min round trip from my house. Many problems have been solved by a slim Jim and diet Dr Pepper.

I develop many ideas on my motorcycle, or on my bicycle, or while having breakfast. Once I have a computer, my brain is rarely idle enough for that.

Just go for a 45 min walk without bringing your phone (or if you have the discipline simply don’t use it). I solve most problems that way.

can't remember where it is but there's an amazing pg quote somewhere wondering whether the net effect of hn has been positive or negative on account of the time-eating aspect. (I think his conclusion was "almost certainly very positive, but I have moments of doubt....")

There's a bit in 'What I worked on' where he says

"Hacker News is definitely useful. I've learned a lot from things I've read on HN. I've written several essays that began as comments there. So I wouldn't want the site to go away. But I would like to be sure it's not a net drag on productivity. What a disaster that would be, to attract thousands of smart people to a site that caused them to waste lots of time. I wish I could be 100% sure that's not a description of HN."

Is it the social aspect? Far more people are able to hang out and talk with friends for hours on end than are able to read a book for hours on end, say.

Throw in the ease of changing direction (jumping from one article from another in a wiki rabbit hole, say), too.

I've heard that if one sets the display screen (whatever it is) to be black-and-white, the web gets much less compelling. I'm sure there are more factors than that, but it's funny how much bright colours in feedback play a role.

One thing I've noticed is that, there is some value in stepping away from your work, and then coming back. Something like a "palate cleanser" for your mind. I agree that mindless web browsing is mostly a waste of time, but there might be some value in loading a little static into your mind, then coming back at your problem in a new frame of mind. So I try to not beat myself up too much. I have blockers and other things which I do use sometimes. I like https://selfcontrolapp.com/ the best for the Mac.

The funny thing is that, as soon as we geeks realize that this is a problem, we immediately want to optimize away the problem by building another app. Hehe.

If all you have is a computer, everything looks like a computation.

I think it's a case of most people have a finite amount of really productive time in them per day and once it's exhausted trying to squeeze more out is counter productive.

What do you fill the rest of the time with?

If you accept you have a finite limit of really good productive time per day in you, it becomes easy, focus on supporting that and making sure you achieve what you can during that productive time then slack off for the rest of the day.

Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time.

> Most creative people have about 2 hours of effective time per day. The rest is thinking/noodling/playing/recovering/… time.

Thinking time is effective time. Intellectual labor isn't typing, though that's sometimes a necessary mechanism for reifying the output.

I've totally cut out Reddit and other sites that have gotten increasingly low quality over the years. That said I do still regularly 'waste' time on HN, although I think it offers enough utility that it's not a bad place to relax for a while now and then.

One thing I've realized over the past few years is that it's almost impossible to get away from 'wasting' a fair few hours each day. It's a good idea to let yourself disengage and move into a more diffuse mode of thought instead of trying to hold your nose to the grindstone unnecessarily. It may be that the effective people you know are that way because of their willingness to take a extended breaks rather than in spite of.

Any tips for high utility websites apart from this one?

Would really appreciate this thanks

Personally, I find it incredibly addictive. Despite trying many things to keep it under control, I still struggle with it.

The thing with mindless browsing is that it gives you an instant trickle of dopamine. Any other activity requires some ramp up time before it feels rewarding. It's a bit like snacking vs. cooking a meal.

HN still has a better signal to noise than 90% of the web.

Agree. HN is the only website I visit every day.

You don’t know any particular web browsing session is low value until after you do it. in fact the web is almost anything.

> Doing them together and juggling bins, mail and doors? Over a minute.

I love this example because it's so crunchy and honest. My "wasteful efficiency" is when I get home and have, like, a couple bags and some other random items that I need to bring from the car into the house. I often forget that I need a free hand to fetch my keys from my pocket and unlock the door, and will attempt to carry everything into the house all at once. And I inevitably end up shoving things into my armpits or awkwardly setting/dropping them on the floor in order to actually open the door. But I park in an attached garage, and the house door is literally 10 feet from the driver's seat of my car. I can just grab one small thing, unlock the door, then come back and get everything else.

The Theory of Constraints works well for me: at any point in time there will be exactly one thing you can do that will have the most positive impact on what you want to achieve. So do that one thing as much as you can. And only do the rest when you are too tired to do #1 or are blocked. The rest you can do in any order without stress. For example optimising when you are taking garbage out is so far from being #1 that you shouldn’t even think about it. It has zero importance. And when #1 is achieved or you have the habit/system in place, something else will now be #1.

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