Comment by ethbr0 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ethbr0 | Hacker News Reader

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From the announcement https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_... (linked in article)

> Today, the Commission is proposing:

> A harmonised charging port for electronic devices: USB-C will be the common port.

> Harmonised fast charging technology will help prevent that different producers unjustifiably limit the charging speed and will help to ensure that charging speed is the same when using any compatible charger for a device.

> Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device: consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger.

> Improved information for consumers: producers will need to provide relevant information about charging performance, including information on the power required by the device and if it supports fast charging.

There's also a proposed 2 year implementation delay, before it comes into force. And a subsequent rule requiring charger-side USB-C ports, handled through a different regulator.

Wait, they want to have USB-C ports on plug chargers?

Guess I'm getting a bunch of USB-C to USB-A adapters to plug in my USB-A to USB-C cables.. :\

I'm sure (admission: not read the details at all yet) it doesn't say only USB-C, so there is nothing to stop a wall-plug charger having both port types, C for modern, A for legacy, as a great many already do.

Looks like they're cheap and small, which is good if you end up needing them. So cheap and small, and and useful enough in a pinch, that I just ordered them myself when I found them looking because of this comment, so thanks. :)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079LYHNSR

I already have these in my wall sockets. Some sockets have USB-A, another one with USB-C. It's great. I hope EU/EEA will pick that up and we can stop travelling with stupid adapters.

Does this mean the iPhone going powerless (EDIT: portless) would render the rule moot?

> going powerless

A device that uses no power, like a rock, is clearly beyond the scope of this law ("electronic devices").

The fact sheet speaks to “harmonising charging ports” and a “common port”. That leaves ambiguity between (a) all electronic devices requiring a USB-C port and (b) all ports on electronic devices requiring to be USB-C.

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_...

I suppose GP meant "portless", assuming that iPhone may drop lightning port without replacement and only rely on the wireless charging.

The intention is clearly that the consumer be able to charge any phone using a generic usb-c charger. Apple's proprietary wireless charging would fail that criteria.

I imagine that if Apple made their technology an industry standard, that a) others could implement, and b) Apple were themselves governed by, then the EU would consider it in addition to usb-c.

> intention is clearly that the consumer be able to charge any phone using a generic usb-c charger

The stated intention is to reduce e-waste. Removing the cable altogether accomplishes that goal.

Wireless charging doesn't mean that there's no cable. It just means that the cable terminates in a coil instead of a plug.

Moot for now, though they call out explicitly that if wireless charging becomes common in the EEA they reserve the right to extend the directive to that domain as well.

Wait isn't unbundling the sale of the charger the thing everyone got mad at Apple for? And now they are legislating it?

Apple's charger unbundling was stupid.

They sold the iPhone with a USB-A charging brick for like 12 years. Then when the iPhone 11 came out in 2019, it came with a USB-C charging brick and a USB-C to Lightning cable, which would not work with any of the chargers they bundled for the past decade and some. And then, one year after changing the cable, they took away the USB-C charging brick.

"Just use the ones you already have" when you'd only have a wall charger that could take the cable that came in the box if you bought the iPhone 11 as well, or bought a separate charger.

I think it's reasonable for Apple to assume that if you kept the old charger, you also had the old cable for it which would also work with the new iPhone.

It is also completely unreasonable to assume your clients all upgraded to the previous model which still had an USB-C charging brick when all the previous chargers had a USB-A port.

Then they'd still be shipping e-waste in the form of a cable that you cannot plug into anything.

Cables are pretty low on the e waste front, since it’s mostly pure copper and shielding. The e waste for the charger is worse.

Plus usb-c to lightning cables were essentially for connecting the iPhone to the Mac. I’d bet that’s the reason the cables was retained.

Apple didn't lower the price after removing the charger.

The charger probably costs about $1 to the BoM. I wouldn’t expect to see any change.

But this is not the biggest thing which is that the parts of the iPhone do not determine the price. The price is already set and determines what parts go in. If something somewhere else becomes cheaper, that’s more room in the budget to spend elsewhere whether that be better hardware, hiring more software developers, higher skilled retail workers, etc.

In the end it’s up to the user to decide if what’s in the box provides enough value to justify the price. And from the sales data of the last year, that’s an astounding yes.

> I wouldn’t expect to see any change.

But then you subsequently need to buy a charger, which is what? $15 if you want to get a reputable one?

Even if you only got a new one every three phones, that's essentially a $5 tax on every device. ($6 if you consider that the cost of the device wasn't reduced, with a $1 actual cost like you suggest)

I have never had a phone charger fail on me so if we assume that it lasts 3 phones and I buy them every 3 years, that comes out to about $1.66 per year for phone chargers.

It’s not a surprise no consumer cares. The average consumer would pay an extra $100 for their phone to get it in their favourite colour. The cost of chargers doesn’t even register.

The fact that the average consumer doesn't care doesn't make it less shitty. Nobody is sitting around amortizing the cost of chargers by year. Fifteen bucks is a full home screen of paid apps on your new phone.

the law is not meant to punish companies but to reduce e-waste. if everyone uses the same charger there is no need for a new one every time you buy a new device

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