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Comment by akudha | Hacker News Reader

Patriotism is a dumb idea most of the time. For example, seeing people shouting their country names in sports events etc for no reason is just plain weird - it is just sporting event, why not just enjoy the sport, have a beer, have fun and go home?

We are almost at 2022 - a virus originating in one country spread across the world within months. We are dependent on each other much more than any other generation. Unless the human race acts united, huge problems like climate change aren't going away. Instead of classifying problems based on borders, we should look at all problems as human problems, not Chinese, American, Russian or whatever.

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I don't think this is very contrarian. Competition, even with no underlying reason (like patriotism) is what improves things. Some "united human race solving global problems" is just dressing up a centrally planned economy, which demonstrably has worse outcomes for almost everyone.

There are lots of totalitarians that believe their cause (e.g. climate change, covid) is so important that it should take precedence over market forces (i.e. what people want). Maybe you are advocating that, but its not a contrarian opinion, it's what every armchair slacktivist technocrat is pushing for, as long as it mainly applies to others.

What makes you believe that competition is what improves “things”?

You either have competition or you have a dictatorship since the only way to stop competition from happening is to make all competing views illegal. Enabling peaceful competition is therefore a must.

We used to have wars and bombings all the time. Now, we have a global economy and international cooperation in space.

I don't think this is very contrarian.

I dunno, the recent increase in rhetoric across the world seems otherwise. Trump, Modi, right wing in Europe etc

I didn't mean anything close to centrally planned economy. Countries can certainly work together without having a rule by committee type situation.

I agree in general that patriotism is dumb. But honestly sports events are probably the healthiest place to channel any patriotic feelings - bragging rights are literally all that's at stake for the audience (and gambling winnings, I guess).

> bragging rights are literally all that's at stake for the audience (and gambling winnings, I guess).

Almost… https://youtu.be/PFFFa9M4T80

I believe you have misunderstood the purpose of patriotism.

Belief in a country is self-identification with a shared narrative. Just like with a startup, some things are impossible to achieve unless everyone (perhaps irrationally) believes they are possible.

Is Country X special? Maybe not. But if everyone there believes it's special, the country may yet become some version of its ideal self. Patriotism is vision casting. It is the story we tell ourselves that we may become the people we want to be.

I think people take patriotism for granted or don’t really understand what it entails.

It’s much deeper than cheering on for a national team.

Lebanon has basically eroded because you have groups who were acting in the interest of their own rather than the country as a whole.

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