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Comment by ksm1717 | Hacker News Reader

Price and panel gaps

The panel gaps and misalignment ive seen online for Teslas are still better than the general fit and finish issues that plague every single GM car I been in. Massive chunks of messy rubber foam, obvious joiners, bad internal panels...

Maybe Tesla is not as tight as BMW, but it is definitely better than GM.

The Bolt isn't priced like a BMW though, while the Tesla is.

Even the Model 3, with it's base price of $35k, runs you around $50k after choosing a color and adding the FSD package.

For a $50,000 car, they are really not built well, quality-wise.

The Bolt, with every bell and whistle selected, runs about $37,000, for comparison.

> The Bolt isn't priced like a BMW though, while the Tesla is.

But only when you fudge the numbers by including FSD.

> The Bolt, with every bell and whistle selected, runs about $37,000, for comparison.

And still lacks an L2 charger, one comparable to the one included with the Model 3 costs another $1000. So for $38k you can get a vehicle that isn't quite as nice as the base Model 3 for a $3k premium.

> And still lacks an L2 charger

The charger included with the bolt is 240V capable, though they don't really advertise it AFAIK.

> for $38k

MSRP on the Bolt is $31K. Historically they've routinely been available for under $25K. And you know what the Bolt has that the Tesla doesn't? CarPlay. And good windshield wiper controls. The Tesla has some upsides, for sure, I mostly enjoyed mine (primarily for it's speed, however). But at $25K vs $35K, I'd get the Bolt every time.

I believe the included EVSE on the 2022 Bolt EUV now officially supports 240V.

Also, for the 2022 EV and EUV, GM will pay for an L2 outlet installation at home.

> But only when you fudge the numbers by including FSD.

I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default. FSD is nearly all Musk talks about.

In fact, I'd argue it's Tesla fudging the numbers by breaking FSD out into a separate line item, just so they can advertise a cheaper car knowing full well people expect to have FSD for that price.

> I don't think this is fudging at all. Tesla's big selling point is the FSD package... and most people select it by default.

I mean even if there weren't data showing that as completely untrue...

https://electrek.co/2021/08/31/tesla-survey-take-rate-full-s...

... then why would Tesla bother to offer FSD as a subscription service if everyone is buying it?

Well, I stand corrected. My guess is the sticker price shocks people into not choosing it then. Most people I've spoken with equate Tesla with self driving...

It's notable the FSD survey had a peak in 2019 - perhaps 2020+ is impacted by covid related things (reduction of income, etc). Or, perhaps it's being influence by monthly stories of Tesla's driving into parked objects and the like.

Still, it was a tactic to break FSD into a separate line item so marketing could tell everyone the cars were cheaper than assumed.

> Most people I've spoken with equate Tesla with self driving...

I hope not, or Tesla's reputation is going to take a hell of a beating when they learn the reality.

Does Bolt have something equivalent to FSD? If not, why are you including it in the price comparison? Isn't the Bolt also dog slow compared to a Model 3? I'd also assume it's handling and suspension is markedly shitbox compared to any Tesla as well.

Somewhat, it has Super Cruise which is hands-free driving on highways. They're not trying to handle intersections, just the simpler long-haul kind of highway driving.

It is a similar thing with Ford's Blue Cruise.

Bolt doesn't have Super Cruise unless I'm totally misinformed.

The Bolt EV only has Adaptive Cruise Control optional but the Bolt EUV can be optioned with Super Cruise. Its the second card on the website.

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-euv

Eyes on the ball. Bolt is a beat car. We are talking Volt and Tesla. I agree with your sentiment regardless

This discussion was about the Volt, Chevy's old PHEV (plug in), not the Bolt EV.

My mistake, the article is about the Bolt.

Exactly my point! It’s a shame that the bolt (a car of indiscriminate quality) has been so named as to cause this confusion with the volt, (a car of discriminate quality).

No. I've owned both. Tesla has quality problems that even GM doesn't have. They may have finally solved them on the Model 3 -- mine wasn't too bad, really, but definitely worse than any other car I've owned (and I've had several dozen).

> Maybe Tesla is not as tight as BMW

Have you seen the i3 disaster?

I'll give you price but I think that's an equivalent trade-off to all the cons:

Much worse horsepower

Much worse EV range

Still requires ICE maintenance

Worse software

> Worse software

The radio might be better in the Tesla, but how many Volts drove their owners into parked fire trucks?

My Model Y, delivered within the last few weeks, has no panel gaps (edit: the panel gaps, measured with an $8 tool at delivery, are within spec). It was delivered in perfect condition and is garage safe. I can even park next to other cars safely.

I test drove a M3P six months ago in Melbourne, and the panel gap quality of the two cars in the showroom was absolutely awful. I couldn't believe it. They were the refreshed model with the chrome delete, too.

Then my friend bought one, and it was as good as any other new car I've seen. It looked great.

I found that quite strange. Is it a roll of the dice based on where and when they're made, or would the demo models have come from a pool that were rejected for sale somehow?

There is a huge amount of variability. You just have to check the one you got before you sign for it and make sure it isn't one where everything is misaligned.

Demo models are likely earlier VINs where the manufacturing line was getting into its rhythm. Can’t say for sure of course, only the ground truth visible to me and what I hear from other Tesla owners.

China Gigafactory produced Teslas are typically higher quality than Fremont builds.

But the refresh didn't change the panel layout, right? I did wonder whether the demos were from Fremont, I believe my friend's M3 came from Shanghai.

Edit: Ah, I see your edit. But if that's what's happening, it's not a line maturity thing. The new factory is the one making the good models.

Yes but consider a non homeowners situation. How much would one have to pay for a parking permit? Add on to this the cost of switching registration (as is necessary in Cambridge, MA to get an on street permit). Model Y is untenable unless you’re making Draper cash! Volt on the other hand…

Your car has panel gaps, it's just a question of whether they're within spec. Most people who aren't either in the automotive industry or really big car buffs won't notice until it gets really bad.

For a vehicle that approaches $80,000, I would hope so.

I paid $53k (long range with a factory installed tow hitch). Average new car price is $41k, and I will save at least $5k over five years in fuel costs.

EDIT: Compare to the top end of Chevy vehicle pricing: https://www.autoguide.com/new-cars/chevrolet/

That's still a lot for a car, so it had better be built right.

It's firmly in BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover territory, not Chevy territory, which it's being compared against.

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