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Comment by syshum | Hacker News Reader

The 1/2 at the extremes ends of the Horseshoe of Politics...

The Covid Deniers, and the Authoritarian "new normal" types that believe government is our parent.

People that believe when it comes to COVID I should have no personal choice, I have to either be forced to vaxx, or the vaxx should be banned, I should be forced to mask, or the mask should be banned...

People that reject liberty in the face of emergency

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the pandemic is not a philosophical problem, it has nothing to do with liberty or freedom. it is purely a scientific problem with a scientific solution - the fucking vaccine

Incredible claim.

Science is a process we employ to learn more about the world.

It is not a solution to all the world's ills. Science informs, then people make decisions on that information.

Denying that controversial decisions are being made by people which impact our freedoms and insisting that science prescribes any given policy at all - much less only a single one! - is the type of thinking which terrifies those on the sidelines.

You appear as a zealot.

why is it an incredible claim? there are only two diseases that mankind managed to clear out completely from earth ~ smallpox and polio. both were wiped out with a vaccine. dozens of other diseases are kept in check with vaccines. nothing incredible about it

just curious: Why are you so confident that the vaccine is the solution? There are countries or populations with very high rate of vaccination that still see community spread (Israel, that UK ship, etc).

Are you mentally prepared for the possibility that this is not true? What evidence would convince you that the vaccine won't 'solve' the pandemic?

Singapore has an 81% full vaccination rate but is still experiencing a rapid rise in symptomatic cases. I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but it's not a complete solution.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/seriously-ill-cov...

Israel only has a 61% fully vaccinated rate. It is having to deal with widespread vaccine skepticism just like the US.

Since the Delta variant is so much more infectious than the original covid, you'd have to get to 90% vaccination rates to count as "herd immunity" against this disease.

Your numbers are misleading and deceptive. 78% of the eligible population and 90% of the most vulnerable have been vaccinated in Israel. Children under 12, who are ineligible for the vaccine, are at insanely low risk from covid and at insanely low risk of spreading it. Pretending they have to be vaccinated to achieve "herd immunity" is a lie and is fear mongering. Data show that unvaccinated children are safer than vaccinated adults.

COVID will become endemic. Everyone knows this. All that's left is for politicians to vilify political opponents for potential votes and try to consolidate more power in the meantime.

It will be endemic longer the more people (i.e. you) imply that there is nothing to be done. Edit: I don't mean to say that is what you meant, I just mean to say that the spread can be contained and the virus can be pushed out of whole regions before new variants arrive. It appears like you are saying that is impossible or not worth trying to attain.

Unfortunately that's simply wrong. There's no scientific basis for claiming that the virus can be pushed out of whole regions. It's impossible. Or at least no one has proposed a plausible plan.

its not only possible but it already happened twice ~ with smallpox and polio.

It is not possible to eradicate SARS-CoV-2. We eradicated smallpox and (almost) polio because we had highly sterilizing vaccines and no animal hosts. That situation doesn't obtain with SARS-CoV-2. Vaccines are highly effective at preventing deaths and I do encourage vaccination, but vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus. They are probably less contagious on average, but unfortunately that isn't enough to control community spread.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03944-y

there is a too many unknowns for anyone to be able to say its not possible to eradicate covid. whats known for sure is that ~40% vaccination rates would have not been able to eradicate either smallpox or polio...

That is true. But would you also agree that it will be endemic longer if we put false hope in solutions that aren't going to fully work? We need to be honest with ourselves, and be open ideas like therapeutics or UV lights in public spaces or other new ideas to reduce the spread of the virus.

Science has proven you can very effectively stop the spread of a virus or other pathogen in livestock by culling the herd/flock.

Should we follow that science with ourselves? Or maybe is there ethical and philosophical ponderances left there?

Wouldn't the scientific solution be total lock down with martial law and anyone not absolutely needed outside being shot on spot. And keep those measures in place for a few months just to be sure?

no. you can't equate getting jabbed and getting shot and conclude that science is evil :D

The problem is that we tried to allow people to be "personally responsible" and we ended up with a worse wave of the pandemic than the original one. People were not responsible, and they were definitely not "personally responsible" seeing how they've tied up our medical system, burnt out medical workers and kept people with normal medical emergencies or conditions from getting the care they require. Liberty is freedom+responsibility. All I hear about is freedom without responsibility though.

So your rebuttable is "we gave you a choice, and you choose wrong"

That is not really a choice. Does the mugger give me a "choice" when he holds a gun to my head and threatens me with violence if do not do as he desire.

It depends on who you ask! If you ask the mugger, he will likely say that you did have a choice.

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