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Comment by gjsman-1000 | Hacker News Reader

There will still need to be the option for a locked boot loader though.

If I’m Snowden, knowing my boot loader could be unlocked and a key logger side loaded isn’t reassuring.

Ironically, Google's own Pixel devices are basically the only ones on the market that allow locking the bootloader with your own key [0]. They even follow the recommended bootflow [1], displaying a warning screen with the hash of the installed ROM when you boot the phone.

[0]: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/external/avb/+/mas...

[1]: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/external/avb/+/mas...

Why is this ironic?

Probably because it effectively means that Google’s own devices are the simplest to “deGoogle.”

I'm not aware of any manufacturer who allows bootloader unlocking without also displaying a warning screen every time the phone boots up.

Example: https://www.thecustomdroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Ho...

My current phone (Xiaomi POCO F2 Pro) only displays a faint lock/unlock icon above the logo while booting. Easy to miss.

But that's not really important, because unlocking the bootloader factory resets the device on every Android phone that I know of. AFAIK it's not possible to unlock a bootloader without the owner's knowledge.

Even if it's easy to miss, a person like Snowden would be looking out for it.

No, locked bootloader's are the stuff of nightmares. Much rather be able to scratch all memory on the device and reinstall.

Perhaps what I mean is "locked bootloaders at POS". Selling them locked should be illegal, but locking them yourself with your own key should be trivial.

How about splitting the difference like locking the bootloader at point of sale with guaranteed period for updates? After the period has lapsed, allow users to unlock the bootloader to extend with custom software upgrades or, a subscription base to continue with original POS policy.

This weirdly intersects for the Right to Repair movement, or for consumers whom would rather be conservative on new device purchases and software licenses.

Reminds me of the idea I've been thinking about - kind of unrelated - but once a device is officially no longer supported by a company - particularly consoles and online games - they should make the source code available so people can continue from there on their own.

I've thought about that before too. As soon as something is no longer actively supported, it should become open for people to maintain themselves. Unfortunately, there's a lot of companies that would fight that with as much money as it takes, so it would never happen (at least not in the US)

It actively goes against their profit interests. If they deprecate the older devices and leave them as black boxes, that's another way to push consumers to buying the new stuff.

Something like this would have to be done with regulation.

Shares some similarities with the gradual corruption of copyright over the years, extending it out into infinity (thanks Disney!), companies would rather hold close the things they refuse to use than give them to the people once they have no more profit to be made off of them.

If only they would frame it as an environmental concern/issue as well, eg: properly dealing with e-waste. Why purchase a device that can be systematically deprecated within a short life cycle when such things can be repaired and/or otherwise be repurposed?

I would like to see a graph of average second hand prices of different abandoned products over time. Mark the interesting points like apple not supporting the next version of the OS or blocking app downloads. Perhaps an income estimate of the average user at the interesting points could also be included and/or sales figures of still supported versions.

Ideally, companies should be forced to deposit everything needed for manufacturing a product - 3D designs, software toolchains, PCBs, BOMs, service tooling - at the national archives to be held in trust.

Once the manufacturer ceases supporting a product, everything becomes open source.

This is kind of solved by Right to Repair legislation. It would prevent companies from making exclusivity deals and force them to allow this stuff to be sold to the public - not that they have to sell it themselves, but their partners would be free to.

I don't know if putting the government in charge of maintaining all of that would be the best idea.

Fun fact, CalyxOs managed to lock the bootloader on my Pixel 2... Found out after trying to get stock android back on it. Now I am all set with CalyxOs, so I don't care. I do get an error message that my device is loading a different OS. Not sure how I can get rid of that...

In all fairness, a locked bootloader won't help against exploits in the OS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28516095

If I'm Snowden, I would be far more concerned about that.

If such snowden like person wants to use such a device, wouldn't he be able to change to lineage os or whatever knowing full well he is now the master of the device or is there malware that persists still ?

Someone could flash a hacked version of lineage when you're not looking.

that is on you

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