Comment by Phil_Latio | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Phil_Latio | Hacker News Reader

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The german federal police publishes a report every year about suspects of crime. "non-germans" meaning people without a german passport. "refugees" are included in non-germans and mean people who got asylum status or stay illegally in Germany. From 2020:

> Murder/Manslaughter Germans: 1,587 Non-Germans: 1,085 (420 refugees)

> Assault Germans: 84,776 Non-Germans: 52,412 (18,094 refugees)

> Robbery Germans: 15,435 Non-Germans: 10,378 (3,739 refugees)

> Rape Germans: 5,370 Non-Germans: 3,110 (1,155 refugees)

Source: https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol...

Now go ahead and put these numbers into context regarding each group's percentage in the population. And be sure to remember, that there are millions of people with migration background who count as germans because they have a german passport.

Personally I have no problem with migration of skilled people or temporary asylum for war refugees: black, brown, white, muslim, hindu, christian, whatever, I don't care. But one has to keep the bad ones out in the long term. Germany and many other western european countries failed to do that for whatever reason. And now their prisons are full of people with migration background.

What you omit from this analysis is that the numbers for immigrants (not refugees, the report does not make that distinction) are lowering significantly more in percentages than the other groups basically across the board. Where they are not leader in crime decrease they are at least lowering as much as native Germans.

Edit: I made the mistake of engaging with your post, where actually it would have been more constructive to point out that you have moved the goalpost: The claim was that refugees are criminals mostly. You have not proven this, you've just proven that some of them commit crime when they are in a new country. That doesn't mean they emigrated as criminals.

> you have moved the goalpost: The claim was that refugees are criminals mostly

I translate "significant" to "meaningful", "noteable" (relative to something) in this context... Not a native speaker though, maybe I'm wrong? If I'm wrong, you are right. But it would be so obviously false anyway, wouldn't it? Only an idiot would claim that let's say 50% of refugees are criminals.

I broadly agree with your last sentence, even though I would have worded it differently here. That is the reason I asked for proof: It was to highlight there isn't any, because it's not true.

Your broader point, that sometimes immigrants fall into criminal traps, is one that is relevant and interesting. It's important to figure out why this happens and how it can be mitigated, because immigration is forever. You want your social structure and systems to be such that no-one feels like the only way they have to have a reasonable life is to be a criminal.

By personal experience, non-Germans tend to be poorer on average. Is there a version of that dataset that controls for poverty level?

You get the basics for free in Germany. There is no need to do robberies to survive. Also murder, assault and rape has nothing to do with being poor (in a welfare state...).

So, I don't know what you're up to.

> There is no need to do robberies to survive.

Then why do robberies happen at all, including by members of the native German population?

Because of a different philosophy (from yours).

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