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Comment by superkuh | Hacker News Reader

https://danieloaks.net/ is behind this. Notice all the companies associated with Ergo IRC Server are the same as those that are associated with Andrew Lee and the freenode take-over and death. shells.com londontrustmedia handshake.

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hey, libera chat staff here. daniel is a top guy, a good friend, and I trust him to the moon and back. as others have said, he was nought but an employee and it didn't involve ora/ergo.

Based on the responses below it looks like what you posted was nothing more than innuendo—actually a smear, given that you singled someone out by name. That counts as a personal attack and that is not allowed on HN. Please don't do this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I think you're a bit confused here. Please refer to how danieloaks himself commented, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28505861

>It's totally fair to make that link, but I very explicitly told everyone over at LTM/H (including PIA and Handshake) that Oragono/Ergo and ircdocs were not work projects in any way. And while I was working on Shells.com, I was very explicit that I wouldn't be touching any IRC stuff for money while there. ... But yeah, it's definitely good to be wary of these kinda links, given what happened to snoo's and fn/libera's team.

I wanted to know what was going on and I didn't want to accuse him of anything since, like it turned out, he was aware of Andrew Lee's behavior and took proactive actions to prevent legal exposure to him. This wasn't some smear campaign. This was me worrying about a dude that worked at 3 different Andrew Lee IRC companies while developing Ergo and prominently displayed them on his website linked from the Ergo page. It's an issue he himself said he was careful about and worth addressing. After he cleared the air I even tried joining the IRC server to check it out.

I know you have to be proactive too to prevent personal attacks but I think in this case you're a bit off the mark.

Just because the targets of your uninformed smear showed up to defend themselves and were super-gracious about it doesn't mean uninformed smears are ok. They don't owe you a 'clearing of the air', you owe them an apology.

Uniformed? Tell me what part of what I said was factually incorrect. The only smear going on right now is from you and dang.

When was the last time either of you used IRC? It seems like you're going off surface level appearances here without understanding any of the context. This was an issue that had to be addressed for anyone from the IRC community to take Ergo seriously.

Oh haha, hey! I was employed by Andrew across a fair few of his companies (I didn't know Shells.com was owned by him while I was working there though). Buuuut this is entirely unrelated to him, same as my other project https://ircdocs.horse/

It's totally fair to make that link, but I very explicitly told everyone over at LTM/H (including PIA and Handshake) that Oragono/Ergo and ircdocs were not work projects in any way. And while I was working on Shells.com, I was very explicit that I wouldn't be touching any IRC stuff for money while there.

But yeah, it's definitely good to be wary of these kinda links, given what happened to snoo's and fn/libera's team. If you wanna ask any more questions about my stuff in particular, feel free to ask here or send me a mail at daniel@danieloaks.net

> It's totally fair to make that link, but I very explicitly told everyone over at LTM/H (including PIA and Handshake) that Oragono/Ergo and ircdocs were not work projects in any way.

and did they agree... in writing?

the ongoing LTM multi-million dollar court cases are almost entirely focused around Lee allegedly not respecting verbal agreements

Yeah we didn't need to agree in writing because I didn't sign anything giving them access, control, ownership, or anything else over my IRC projects. They offered to purchase one of them at one point, but I respectfully declined.

hopefully you didn't sign anything that could conceivably be argued in any way, shape, or form that might even hint at ownership, tangential or otherwise!

because that guy is a total asshat (MY OPINION)

As the co-maintainer of Ergo, since I joined the project in 2017 it has never (to the best of my knowledge) received any funding from Andrew Lee or any company affiliated with him.

In terms of ongoing specification and development work, we take direction primarily from the IRCv3 working group, in which we are both participants: <https://ircv3.net/charter>

Andrew Lee has nothing to do with Ergo. Daniel used to be his employee (before the freenode takeover), but Ergo wasn't part of the job at all.

You’ll have a hard time finding IRC related projects not touched by andrew in some way.

most of the older large IRC networks wanted nothing to do with him

(having seen people like him many times before...)

I've noticed some collaboration between shells.com and Linux Mint. Do you know if Andrew is involved or trying to become involved in Linux Mint? I love that distro and community and don't want to see it damaged by this man.

To be fair there was also collaboration between PIA and Linux Mint while I worked at PIA. That'd probably be a question best answered by the Mint people who're involved

One sure thing is the Linux Mint help channel is not on Freenode (but SpotChat)

What’s the context here? Not familiar with these names.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-bee...

Freenode takeover stuff.

It’s a long and drawn out drama.

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