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Comment by wffurr | Hacker News Reader

BART is uniquely bad in that respect. Significantly worse than other North American cities. Chalk it up to Bay Area dysfunction and inequality.

Used EVs will be relatively affordable soon and the total cost of ownership is significantly lower.

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BART existing at all puts it ahead of the majority of cities in the US (for reference, per capita San Fansisco has the second most trips on public transit of any city in the US). New York is the only US city that has comparable public transit to international contemporaries.

Long decades of poor planing in the US (and in general the low population density) make it a place ill-suited to public transportation. EVs affordable enough for the poor will definitely be required here, so here’s hoping you’re right and we’ll reach that point soon.

>(and in general the low population density)

The low population density is arguably caused by the bad planning.

>make it a place ill-suited to public transportation.

I'm quite convinced that you will not be able to drive yourselves out of the issue you have in the U.S - you'll need to retrofit what you have to make it amenable to proper public transportation. EVs help a bit, but only really with the carbon dioxide-issue - everything else bad about cars is still bad with EVs.

>EVs affordable enough for the poor will definitely be required here

Here in SW Ontario there are countless people riding those electric scooters or ebikes in the summertime. I’ve even seen old barflies hop on after drinking a pitcher and head on to the next spot. I’m sure the Bay Area has more clement weather year-round than here.

I commuted to/from a train on an electric scooter. Not only are they just not viable for any trips longer than 3-4 miles, you can't go up any sort of incline either. Mine was "overclocked" to enable up to 500w of power and I'm 180lbs, but it wouldn't be able to climb even a 10 degree incline at over walking speed. And at least the consumer ones you can find on Amazon are not robust enough to withstand even 6 months of daily use before the tire wears out, battery terminals corrode, and screws start falling out.

I've used a normal bike and an e-bike and didn't have such issues.

$2k e-bikes are probably more robust than the $600 scooter I was riding and would definitely be my choice next time around. For anyone interested in e-scootering though, avoid the Segway ES series like hell and make sure you do your research.

Perhaps it puts them ahead, but they are coasting. BART and Muni ridership has for years been stagnant or declining, while the budgets explode and system speed and on-time performance fall apart.

Maybe Caltrain did marginally better? They added express services not that long ago.

> Used EVs will be relatively affordable soon

We're very far away from crossing under 30K, much less 10K

My LEAF cost a little over $30K brand new (before $10K in total rebates).

Used LEAFs (and Smart ED/EQs) are readily available in the $5K to $10K range.

Used Chevy volt for 5-15k, it seems you can get a sub 10k electric car already?

A Volt is a hybrid, not a pure electric. (The Bolt is Chevy’s BEV.)

So what? If it drives a few 10s of miles without burning gas, if everyone used them, that would eliminate probably 90%+ of emission pollution in cities.

I feel that the obsession with pure electric has crippled the fight against pollution and CO2 emissions. Every car with 20 miles of battery range is probably a lot more impactful in the fight against climate change than 10% of cars with 200 miles of battery range, and has fewer major tradeoffs (cheaper, limited range/recharging is not an issue, much less need to build an entirely new charging infrastructure).

Upthread context is someone positing/supporting a total ban of all ICE in their city and someone arguing that’s disproportionately harmful to the poor because pure EVs are more expensive. In that context, it matters quite a bit that the Volt has an ICE, even though I overall agree with you on the Volt being environmentally beneficial.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28504461

Even a hybrid is probably sufficient in this context.

Upthread context: “If I had a vote whether to ban combustion engines from my city (cars, trucks, mopeds, leaf blowers - everything), with a relatively short transition period (say 5 years), I'd be in favor.”

In that context, the Volt (and other hybrids, plug-in or not) would either be banned or be required to disable their ICE engines in the city.

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28504461

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good

But EVs are really not perfect anyway.

People say why have two powerplants. The reason is to get rid of the (environmental impact of) 300 mile batteries.

90% of the time, 10% of the battery is enough.

From the page above:

"If you never miss a plane, you're spending too much time at the airport."

Indeed, and that was for the reason of ending emissions within a city. A poor person who commutes with one is likely (even though not guaranteed) to be using it over the sort of distance where the tiny battery is sufficient, so with regard to achieving that goal rather than that method, I think hybrids would probably be sufficient.

I agree that banning all ICE vehicles in 5 years is not a practical nor worthwhile goal to pursue.

It's in a weird space. It's kinda a pure electric.

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