What sort of monsters would willingly subject peaceful, healthy, informed strangers to state-mandated medication, under threat of impoverishment and ostracism?
That's the difference.
If we had a plague as bad as the Black Death, then yes, it would be deadly.
People will use the death numbers as counter-arguments, yet most deaths (94%-ish last I heard) are from people who had comorbidities, like obesity and such.
Until there is the same logic being applied to obese people as to the unvaccinated, as well as counting previous infections, especially for healthcare workers, I personally will not apply the same logic of smoking and drunk driving either.
Obese people do affect my health if they take a hospital bed that I could have used when I need it. Isn't that one of the same arguments applied to the unvaccinated?
If we didn't have so many obese people, would the hospitals be overloaded? Would we have a shortage of healthcare workers?
I am repeating them because repeating works. See the Parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge. It is also what the others are doing, by repeating the same "tired" lines over and over about how the unvaccinated are killing grandmas.
By the way, I'm not trolling. I'm serious. HN guidelines ask that you assume good faith.
The Delta variant has a case fatality rate in the US of 0.1% for the general population, and 2% for those over 50.
That's not nothing. There are a LOT of people over 50 in a hospital.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
There is no reliable evidence of a higher IFR for the Delta variant.
That seems like the appropriate peaceable response by a society to someone choosing to become a potential walking threat to all those around them.
Anyway, if the vaccines protects you, then you're not threatened about the unvaccinated. I don't really understand the fuss about it.
Is is state-mandated or private-company-mandated?
> informed
Yeah you're going to have to work a little harder in order to get that one accepted.
> Strangers
They are people who are in constant contact with very vulnerable group. Personal liberty ends where other person's liberty begins.
The problem with that argument is that it's disingenuous.
Sure, unvaccinated workers could spread the virus, but so can vaccinated workers. "It's less likely!" How much so? Where do we draw the line? Also, unvaccinated workers are more likely to know they are sick and stay home, which could very well make it less likely that they spread the virus. There are too many variables.
Also, there are many cases where the liberty of others is only taken into account if it is proven that someone's actions affected others. If an action that someone takes does not affect others in an appreciable way, we tend to ignore it. Say, for example, if someone buys almost all of an item from a store, preventing others from doing so. Or banks lending out more money than they have. Or a parent getting distracted by kids while driving.
In all of those cases, we ignore the potential that doing those things may infringe on others' rights, such as the parent causing an accident or the bank being unable to cover all of the withdrawals they have one day because inflation is rising, which causes a run on the bank.
So why don't we do that here? Why is it so important to prevent something that might happen rather than being okay with fixing what does happen?
Say that some people at a hospital get sick of COVID. The hospital has both vaccinated and unvaccinated workers. The hospital decides that it's going to hold the unvaccinated workers responsible for it. The workers complain and ask for proof they were responsible. So the hospital tests everyone, and the only people with COVID at the time were vaccinated. What does the hospital do then?
tl;dr: Personal liberty does end where another's begins, but what people forget is that the victim needs to prove that their rights were infringed before they get relief.
2. According to the article, 20 of the 30 were employed in "clinical positions like nurses, therapists and technicians". These are literally healthcare professionals.
3. I agree: mandatory (including coerced) vaccinations are hideously immoral.