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Comment by kingkawn | Hacker News Reader

For the bikes being loud enough that everyone knows you’re coming is life and death issue on the road surrounded by huge cars and trucks

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Sorry, but as a person with over 15 years of motorcycle driving experience - "loud pipes save lives" is mostly a myth. They may help sometimes, but they can also be dangerous since in some settings they can scare the heck out of the car driver which can lead to them making unpredictable choices.

Ultimately, the best thing a rider can do is take total ownership over our safety - full protective gear, constantly taking advanced riding training courses, and above all - always riding at a reasonable speed for the road, visibility and traffic conditions.

You just reminded me of an incident that happened to me on I83 near the PA border - a motorcyclist passed between me and the vehicle in the left lane (yes ... a two-lane road passing on the dashed line) going about 120 MPH. It wasn't the cycle passing at high speed very close to the car that scared me ... it was that I never saw him/her in my mirrors and the noise between two cars that were 4 feet apart was horrendous. I actually made me flinch at the wheel and I probably swerved a foot in my lane.

I've known many conscientious motorcycle drivers but it's people like this that lead to emergency room doctors referencing "donorcycles".

This is especially true in modern cars with great sound deadening and NVH. As my group of riders has observed when we ferry bikes into winter storage, the only bikes we can hear at all in our cars are practically straight piped.

That theory has been tested, and shown that bikes are not loud enough for anyone to hear you coming. https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-p...

The accident stats also fail to backup this idea, and even suggest that loud pipes might be giving some riders a false sense of safety and leading to more accidents than otherwise. https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/07/29/the-truth-about-loud-...

That’s the sales pitch, but I haven’t seen any evidence. Almost all the sound is projected behind you, where people can already see you (and where high-vis clothing would be more effective than sound anyway, but you don’t see many bikers wearing that).

Anecdotally, the people I’ve known with loud exhaust systems are not what you’d call “safety conscious”.

Even if it's ineffective, it's still a psychological safety blanket. It's much the same reason that bikers ride in groups.

I'll keep that in mind next time a loud bike wakes up my children in the middle of the night.

"It's okay honey, that man needed a psychological safety blanket.'

This!! Mufflers and subwoofers wake up my child in the middle of the night and only we know how long it takes to fall asleep again. Its frustrating because both of these sources are completely unnecessary

My kids would find that hilarious, and I'd have to resign myself to hearing it after every motorcycle that passes for weeks.

Isn't that to say that's its worse than ineffective? That suggests it causes bikers to do more dangerous things because they think the loudness is protecting them

Mm, but I'm in my house, not on the road. There's no danger from me crashing into this motorcyclist.

My bicycle isn't very loud though; should I be attaching a subwoofer t9 it because I'm around the same cars and trucks? So far, bicycling has been plenty safe without the loudness

This doesn’t deserve to be downvoted. The statement is correct. I have a permanently destroyed right foot and ankle because someone made a left turn from the right lane just outside the Holland Tunnel in NJ back in 2004. The driver “didn’t see me” before making the illegal turn and planting his Mercedes horizontally across my lane as he slowed to enter the gas station driveway. I laid my quiet 800cc bike down and plowed into his car at 40mph, crushing my right leg between the bike and his driver side door. I now have 4 toes, limited mobility, and near constant pain with every step I take. After that I put straight pipes on my bike and had countless other situations where a car would start to change lanes into me and then move back when I gunned the engine to let them know I was there. Loud pipes save lives. Car drivers are often oblivious of their surroundings or distracted by their phones or music. When they check their blind spot the brain is looking for car or truck shapes and ignores motorcycle shapes as it quickly assesses the clearance of the lane. I’ve had people look right at me and then change lanes into me. I’ve kicked cars and cabs from my motorcycle as they are pushing me off the road. 100% of accidents where a car hit a bike use the excuse of not seeing the motorcyclist. I’ll make sure they can hear me too.

Sorry for your accident. Just wanted to share my contrary experience.

A motorcycle with loud pipes filtering right passed me fast in a two lane road while I was on the left lane, I was in my car. I am a former enduro rider myself and don't react when I hear a loud one, but the driver in front panicked as he was most probably didn't see him coming from his mirror, did a hard left, came dangerously close to barriers and did a hard right to correct, hit the motorcycle pushing him to the right lane. Motorcycle barely fit the space there and luckily didn't crash, but it was all happened on a very straight road with no one was turning or doing any movement, just straight driving.

After 15 years, I have enough confidence that being muffled or not does not make any difference to safety, people hearing the thunder but not seeing the source is equally lethal to a rider. I'd rather have proper training, constant wearing full body armored motorcycle clothes and a much lighter/cooler riding attitude (not saying you didn't have / do any of this).

>back in 2004

>distracted by their phones

Have the roads gotten more dangerous in the past 15 years?

Also the issue people have with loud exhaust is not that it draws attention on the highway; it's that people use it as a tool to be obnoxious. When I lived in a small town I would regularly get woken up at 2am by some shmuck opening up on main street. The entire town would be woken up. I had the urge to chase them down. It's not good for anyone.

And that's the real reason. These toddler narcissists are out to make it known to the world that here rides a badass, not that there is someone who drives responsibly and whose life depends on the volume of their exhaust. It's pathetic.

It's not possible that they might just enjoy loud machines? And you might not enjoy loud machines?

I have neighbors, friends, and family who ride motorcycles either for the speed or for the sound. They're mostly reasonable about it. But the thing about loud machines is that they are loud for everyone, who didn't get to choose whether to listen to that engine at 2AM.

The comparison to toddlers is apt because we expect adults to be aware of the effects their actions have on others, and take steps to mitigate them in social reciprocity.

Why would that be relevant or important? Frankly, it's not a justification for antisocial behaviour to 'like' it.

They could instead put on lound machine noises in their headphones.

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's unlikely to improbable that "bike wasn't loud enough" was the cause there.

Throwing away the idea that people in cars don't impede their own hearing with radio stations and music; sound produced by engines is not fantastically directional to hear and mostly trails behind bikes (due to that being the location of the exhaust).

It sounds equivalent to driving your car around with the horn constantly pressed for safety. Why not get a horn or something for your bike? Or wouldn’t that sound as cool?

I've heard that there are indeed places in the world where people will refuse to drive if the horn is not working, for this reason.

Funny enough, that basically describes traffic in Vietnam.

As someone mentioned above, most of the motorcycle muffler sound is projected backwards.

The louder is safety is just a myth to not comply. Most of it is ego and show off in my oppinion.

If he was making a left turn from the right lane, maybe he would have collided with a car if one had been there also.

Folks here already decided they were too right for your experience. I hear you though.

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