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Comment by paulluuk | Hacker News Reader

I've done psychedelics and a bunch of different drugs, and honestly I don't see how it's any different from getting drunk. Sure, being drunk is different from being high on acid, but that's also different from being high on THC. It's just a bunch of different ways of your brain being effectively poisoned and acting in weird ways.

It's fun, it might even be called liberating, and it definitely can affect your brain. But let's not go so far as to suggest that it's this magic thing that will turn you into an awesome person.

Now, they do say that alcoholics make the best writers, and likewise I'm sure that some people are more creative when they are on psychedelics or other drugs (assuming that by "creative" one means the ability to create abstract art, not the ability to design a bridge). But it also comes with a significant cost in intelligence and coherence.

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I've done a lot of different drugs.

MDMA was different. I was in my 30s before I tried it: Before that point, I generally suggested folks do shrooms or LSD at least once in their life. Not anymore. MDMA can change the way you relate to yourself and your experiences. Profound change - things like no longer being so bothered by traumatic things in your past. There is good reason there are stories of MDMA being used as a marriage counseling guide: You are more comfortable and open talking about things you might have avoided. Which, really, is why it is being used for therapy and PTSD. Many of us just don't need the therapy bit.

Sidenote: I make both abstract and non-abstract art while tripping - the non-abstract tends to be a little surreal. Of course, I make art while sober, too - both abstract and not. I*m sometimes just more free when I am on LSD, but I do make similar stuff sober. Abstract art isn't a lack of creativity, by the way.

But this is because I do art. If you were doing a lot of maths or sciences, LSD might allow you to figure out a problem from a point of view you didn't consider before. Or maybe you make music and get some creativity there - this is really common too. LSD doesn't mean you are making bad products, just that you should look over them when sober to be sure.

Of course, you might be on of the many people that cannot make a straight line with a pen while on LSD, and that's pretty normal.

I unfortunately did tons of ecstasy between 18 and 30. I was obsessed with for a few years. At one point it was once a week. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Once you've experienced pounding house music, mdma and flashing lights it feels like everything else is just meh. The comedowns became so bad I seriously couldn't think of anything I'd like to do less now. About 4 years ago I took it at a festival I didn't enjoy it at all. I hadn't done it in about 5 years. I just felt confused and anxious. My wife used to love doing it too. I can see how it helps people open up. I also think it's given some pretty bad short term memory issues. Other heavy users I know say the same thing.

About ten years ago I met an old friend whose life had gone to complete shit, he was obviously very paranoid and worried, bizarrely asked me and my other friend had we been laughing at him when all three of us shared a joke. He was a very very heavey user at one point. Prior to all this he was bright and out going. Now just wreck.

Anyway, it's a seriously potent drug with some serious long term effects (imo)

I think it's important not to conflate ecstasy or whatever street/party drugs are widely available, and whatever excipients or other additions, with actual pure MDMA.

This, and so much this.

Furthermore, folks should realistically do some research. I've done a fair amount of MDMA, but have never done ecstasy. I knew starting up that once a week was most definitely too much - of course, maybe I was older than most folks when they try it.

I wouldn't know - I have never done ecstasy. I've done MDMA, which was pure and definitely not ecstasy. And from what I understand, it is a different experience - you don't get the same after effects from ecstasy.

And I'll go as far as to say that once a week is definitely too often: The spouse and I were more concerned about being safe and not getting the stress and burnout we knew could happen, but isn't as likely if you have good space. I think the most we have ever allowed ourselves was once a month and I've never taken it at festivals. Just home.

Heavy use is often always different. And this is one of those very real things that legalisation could help with - actual information to keep people safe.

I've done both. Mdma crystals tends to feel way softer somehow, I think because pills are often cut with other speedier type drugs. Sleep was easier on mdma but the come down was still hell if you took enough. I had come downs that went on for days maybe even a week. I hate all of it now :)

I've not generally had an issue, but I - for lack of better words - take "reasonable" doses of such drugs, so I suppose that is some of my approach. I mean, I drink somewhat regularly too, but rarely actually get drunk rather than comfortably buzzed. I've never had such a comedown, though I know of folks that eventually had a bad reaction (panic attack, specifically) over time.

I do not blame you for staying away :)

I def think there is something to that. And the short term memory thing is true too... like you're kind of in a daze and not as sharp sometimes. Paranoia and hypersensitivity to social situations too.

Haven't done in over 1.5 years, still has a stack, and not sure if will save for a special occasion or just throw away.

> I've done psychedelics and a bunch of different drugs, and honestly I don't see how it's any different from getting drunk. Sure, being drunk is different from being high on acid, but that's also different from being high on THC

I've also done psychedelics and my experience is the opposite.

I really don't see being high on THC or on acid the same as being drunk on alcohol at all.

Maybe it's because I don't like / enjoy alcohol but I do enjoy cannabis and psychedelics.

But when I'm drunk I can feel I'm unable to think properly and everything seems to be laggy.

I don't get any of that with thc and psychedelics, it's a different state of mind sure, but I don't think it's being induced by "poisoning your brain"

The way alcohol has impacted me since 18 has changed so much in a decade. It used to give me brilliance and energy. Now it's truly a depressant. More than 2-3 drinks and I start sliding into a nihilistic slop. I don't see much use for it anymore. But it's so popular and ubiquitous that I do partake... maybe should just stop.

Seconded. I took MDMA when I was younger and I think it accelerated some mood/behavioral issues I had prior, making them much worse. I’ve only recently started to realize that I have never been “happy” since after taking them. Someone will chime in “well yeah you shouldn’t have taken them! Duh!”, thanks captain obvious but not everyone knows that.

Yep, drugs can be dangerous, it cannot be understated enough. I've experienced both sides of the coin. For me, the profound thing that drugs has done is to provide a standard form of measurement within my own subjective experience. I now rate every euphoric thing as 10% mdma-intense, 50% mdma-intense and so on. What blew my mind is that I have experienced certain sober euphoric experiences that were much more intense than mdma (e.g. doing a meditation retreat and during that retreat I sometimes found myself mindfully in the zone, that was much more intense).

The same goes for the existentialism part when it comes to psychedelics. I have a new perspective on having children while not having had children myself. But the whole idea of that they are little reflections of you and your girlfriend bundled up in one which makes huge emotional impact on you, that makes a lot more sense now.

Or another one: sometimes I act like I'm on mdma (while I'm sober and reasonable enough), those days are a blast!

How drugs screwed me over: 6 months to a year of almost losing touch with reality (constantly needing to stay rational, so that I wouldn't lose myself) or being a bit too paranoid for a few months (just a bit). Or wanting to jump out of the window while on shrooms (I had countermeasures in place, never thought I needed them).

So yea it's dangerous stuff. You can learn something amazing from them, but you can also learn a lot from intense exercise drills (if you treat them like a drug-like experience), or meditation, or dancing, or singing, or falling in love, or making friends, or talking with friends.

Goodluck and have fun with life :)

I have had a limited number of mdma trips and each one has been special.

Last time I measured out a small dose and went for a walk alone, then ran into a friend and got to talking about my current boggle, drew a straight line between that and my childhood and teenage experiences and… woke up in the next morning feeling deeply depressed and just had to put myself together again to get my plans moving and in two hours I had.

If ever there was an example of ‘drug enhanced talking therapy’ that was it.

My understanding though is that it is rough on your serotonin system and if you do it hundreds of times it is more harm than good.

LCD in my experience allows you to take note of things that have fallen outside of your perception filters. Such as squeaky door that you said you would oil but you delayed doing so and eventually it just became part of the door and you stopped noticing. I attribute any creativity to this weird fresh perspective. You could even argue that altered states always can give new perspective by virtue of what they are.

Have you done pure MDMA? Like actually tested it before hand to make sure? It’s an extremely different experience to alcohol or other psychedelics. Your description sounds more like the cut E that is mostly just speed or other drugs.

How would you test it? I'm curious

In some more liberal countries you can buy kits that let you know what you've just bought off that bloke at the end of the bar with the stickers still on his baseball cap.

You can buy your own test kit from the harm reduction group DanceSafe https://dancesafe.org/drug-checking/

There's also the site https://www.drugsdata.org/ where you can send in drugs for testing.

It's also important to mention that pure MDMA is much rarer in the US than it is in Europe, and given that HN is very majority American, it is likely to find more experiences with bad quality MDMA here than you would in another forum

> It's just a bunch of different ways of your brain being effectively poisoned and acting in weird ways.

What makes you say this? As far I'm aware, the typical dosages that people use with psychedelics, when taken in a safe environment, don't cause any negative health effects -- and often have some positive long-term benefits.

> It's just a bunch of different ways of your brain being effectively poisoned and acting in weird ways.

The difference between medicine and poison is the dose. "The dose makes the poison", as they say.

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