MDMA reopens child-like “critical periods” in the brain
analyticalcannabis.com
analyticalcannabis.com
I had crippling social anxiety throughout my teens and into my early twenties. I had fully accepted that I would always be alone and I was happy for the most part. This all changed around age 25 as I (seemingly all of a sudden) became physically attractive enough for women to be interested in me. Without wanting to go into too much detail, my life was turned upside down and I started to learn lessons about people, society and relationships that I feel like I should have learnt 10 years prior. I no longer have social anxiety and can have meaningful relationships with people.
During this renaissance period I did use MDMA. But what did it do for me, if anything? Did it enable me to learn these lessons in a way that a normal 25 year old wouldn't be able to? Or did it show me things I wouldn't have seen otherwise, but were still within my natural ability to learn? Or was it simply a fun thing I did but ultimately I would've got where am I today anyway?
My feeling is the drug did help me, but I wouldn't just recommend it to others in my position. It won't do anything for you if you just take it in your bedroom with no other changes happening in your life. But if you find yourself, like me, learning how to be social much later in life, it might be worth a try. It won't harm you if you do your research (read erowid).
Everyone wants validation and doubly so from the opposite sex
Almost. Our second biological purpose is to stay alive, in order to have more babies.
> It won't do anything for you if you just take it in your bedroom with no other changes happening in your life
Interestingly, that's the way many people have reported having their lives changed by it. And that's roughly how it's being used in the latest breakthrough clinical trials (for MDMA and psilocybin). There is a therapy component, but it seems to be play a relatively minor role. https://maps.org/news/multimedia-library/2379-can-a-single-p...
She was on her way to a graduate degree in Biochemistry, but lost interest. She didn't blame MDMA, but felt she probally shouldn't have taken it.
You can definitely screw yourself up doing it too often, or doing too much at once.
Just my $0.02.
I was always too cautious to take drugs from unknowable sources, but based on the positive things she said, I'm curious about therapeutic uses of MDMA and would be open to trying it with my therapist, if I had way to be confident in the safety and purity of it. I think the only way I would feel comfortable would be if it came from a pharmaceutical source, so I probably won't be trying it any time soon.
I've got a bit of a love/hate relationship with MDMA. I tried it for the first time around age 26, and did it about 4x a year the 3 years after, usually with my girlfriend. In the past year I've not done any drugs and am conflicted about where to go from here.
The initial experiences the first year were really just pure bliss in a way I'd not experienced before, and the feeling of being on cloud 9 lasted pretty strongly for weeks, and months later I could still relive the good feelings by recollecting it, or listening to certain music. As you describe, speaking comfortably with your partner was amazing. The feeling of having empathy for a loved one, and receiving it back, was one of the most wonderful aspects of it, the one I probably enjoyed the most, and longed for while sober. (more-so than the body-feel, the touching, the music, all of which was amazing too).
In the second year of use that developed into a more black/white experience of a heavy-upper and then a complete lack of it the day after. I don't think I had any downers, but the contrast between pure bliss one moment, and a very regular mundane living room setting that same evening, was definitely strange. It put the presence or absence of happiness in the spotlight, whereas before I didn't generally pay that much attention to my state of happiness. Feeling bliss wasn't an obsession, and lacking it wasn't an issue. After MDMA, that calculus changed a little bit.
In that year I also realise how artificial the experiences of drugs were. MDMA still gave me amazing experiences with friends and my SO, some of the conversations we'd not normally have really did have lasting effects in a positive way. At the same time, it felt like we were cheating. Feeling comfortable enough on drugs to discuss certain things is great, but it also highlighted we weren't communicating completely honestly without drugs. And lastly, there were some indications that we weren't the same person on drugs, either, and that the drug personality wasn't necessarily the 'real one' that lies underneath without inhibitions. I've seen friends cheerfully smile as they told me their phone was stolen at a festival due to drugs, whereas they lost precious pictures/data and money (which they couldn't afford), and were devastated about this the next day.
I still enjoyed MDMA without any cynicism, but the rose-tinted glasses had come off.
In the third year of use I think I noticed I was slightly less happy generally, and while on drugs the highs weren't as high. It's hard to isolate this, it could have a million causes. But my feeling was my brain has been altered for the worse due to the drugs and that it was time to stop. It's been a year now and I'm quite happy to have stopped. At the same time, an amazing experience unlike any other is a few dollars and 30 minutes away. I'm happy to have tried drugs, but I kind of feel it's probably best for me to stay away from it from now on and treat it like a middle-class family treats a Michelin star restaurant: every few years, on vacation, you may indulge, but otherwise you don't think about it. I think those who can limit it to once a year or even less, will find MDMA is quite amazing. For those like me who went down the rabbit hole a bit and tried it multiple times a year for years (or worse, those who do it every weekend), probably will suffer at some point.
Take my input with a grain of salt. I am no professional.
But to me it is just like saying it is cheating to go to a therapist and talk about things you won't normally talk about. The whole point of these experiences is to shift your perspective so you can explore things under different lights. Doesn't make these experiences any less valid. You shouldn't beat yourself because it was chemically induced state of openness, it is awesome you can go there if you need to, as long as the altered state doesn't become a refuge.
This reminds me of something I periodically see about ADHD medicine. There’s some debate about whether it makes you more productive or whether it just makes you feel like you’re more productive.
I’m pretty firmly undecided about whether or not the distinction even matters.
Many people report feelings of “wearing glasses for the first time” after their first few doses of either amphetamine or methylphenidate. I haven’t had that kind of wow moment yet, but there has definitely been a subtle shift in my behaviour.
The questions are:
(1) Is the effect unique to people with ADHD, or does everyone get this focus boost?
(2) Is the effect sustainable over the long term, or are you just building up to an eventual crash where you have to wean yourself off the drugs very painfully.
I don't really have any firm opinions on the answers, but I do think that your first few weeks of experience doesn't count for much.
What I can contribute to #1 is that, apparently (per my psychiatrist), people who experiment with drugs sometimes discover that drugs like cocaine and amphetamine behave quite differently for them than with non-ADHD people; instead of getting ramped up, they find it calms them down. Of course, with a sufficiently high dose they’ll get ramped up too, but there’s a pronounced, confusing (to the user) dip in the dose response that the people around them don’t seem to experience. I’ve never tried either, so I can’t comment on that first hand.
I do feel like there's some sort of damage from it. Feel like I stutter a bit more, and somedays I'm very socially apprehensive. Do you think time can heal from it?
I experienced a similar thing by going to therapy. I don’t necessarily get better overall, but more confident in handling the dark times.
I personally feel I used to have quite a good memory, able to remember things I was told without being interested. Now I feel my memory is sharp with those items I find important to remember, but details of random conversations I don’t automatically store anymore. When revisiting those conversations later I find myself noticing I forgot things. I also search for words a bit more often. But it’s hard to recognise the pattern and even harder to trace it to MDMA.
But it is all in line with the impact on memory tasks from academic studies on MDMA users.
Not familiar with the symptoms you noted personally or academically.
My hunch is that damage will be partially temporary and partially permanent. But really it’s just a hunch.
The last time this happened was in early 2021. At that time, one of my friends was about to leave for another country for work. My friend luckily managed to find a dealer. For around 3 months before he left, both of us would have an ecstasy pill each (not pure MDMA) every weekend and party. The abuses stopped and over time I did not feel any more anger towards the girl. Once my friend left, I stopped the ecstasy every week even though I take one every 2-3 months. However, my mental health has improved remarkably and I am now focused on re-skilling myself. I have never been so positive in my life.
I like to think MDMA has given me a second chance in life and it is up to me to make the most of it.
My supposed girlfriend actually enjoyed experimenting with drugs before we met, and occasionally used to do cocaine. I never touched them, even though I drink and smoke. Perhaps if I got the chance to do MDMA with her a couple of times our relationship could have been better. But I will never know.
While I'm fully aware that it is possible that I'm a deluded drug user, I suspect it's the lack of research — and potentially a failure of methods. That is, I'm not sure cannabis would help me think of more uses for a brick (a test of divergent thinking) nor help me gain insight into how to tack a candle to a wall (a classic test of convergent thinking and insight). But there is a definite change in the clarity and volume of my inner voice and mental imagery — and this can be extremely useful for conceiving new product concepts.
Genuinely curious, being stoner myself.
I will add that alcohol helps for my creativity from time to time too, it seems to break barriers.
For the 10k: https://xkcd.com/323/
But one noticable downside to it is that the more distributed the attentions are, the more likely you are to get stuck in a local maximum as the less cohesive your modules become in terms of utilization (eg for abstracted goals) and the data-granularity gets too fine-grained to be useful from a cybernetic perspective.
The effect differs from person to person. (Eg Short-timespan-wise people lie on the sofa or keep laughing, etc, the stereotypical notion being “stoned”, and long-term-wise if things are repeated in the same settings over, reliance is formed (as a coping mechanism for stress perhaps) and person becomes a typical unproductive “stoner”))
Therefore the most important thing here are 1. the settings 2. Don’t take it lightly. Though thc is not as powerful a disruption to the default mode network as lsd/dmt, one should never take it mindlessly and too regularly. Learn to grow out of it, not in.
I'll be checking these variants out!
Here is the full text he wrote in 1969: https://www.organism.earth/library/document/mr-x
That or it just puts me into a deeper state of concentration. Not sure, but it’s interesting how addictions can become ancillary to creativity/productivity.
The same can happen after moving, marriage, divorce, death, and so on.
I love the smell of boarding a ferry.
In all seriousness, I've noticed that light THC gummies (specifically sativa dominant) help me visualize hard math problems, like learning linear algebra. Perhaps it's just the enhanced focus...but I definitely notice a difference when studying on THC vs sober.
It's not even that unique to drugs. Theres TV shows which I've found make you feel more intelligent for getting the twist or whatever, where in reality it was actually quite simple.
The only time I think it can be helpful (though I can only testify for alcohol here) is that it can help stop analysis paralysis and make you more confident in your decisions. They may be wrong decisions, but thats not the point
There's never actually been any study on the safety of most of the things that we eat. Particularly, for me, I wonder if sucrose would come up a-ok or end up on the cutting room floor of foods.
[1] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/generall...
There was a thread recently where one of the top comments was about "non-usual" mental states provoking new ideas, even alcohol / sleep deprivation (while not being used to it).
I definitely experienced some breakthroughs after skipping a sleep and suspect the principle is somewhat similar.
- Hypnosis
- Meditation
- Spiritual experience
- Learning
- Insight
- Understanding
- Emotional development
- Sensitivity training
- Mental development
- Recreation
> Emotions influence behavior that alters the state of consciousness. Emotions can be influenced by various stimuli.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_state_of_consciousness...
It's normal that these things varies, depending on the state you're in. Any kind of dopamine rush (thinking positively about future endeavours, thinking about something you would like to have, etc.) will make your inner voice louder and faster and you'll be imagining things more easily. I guess cannabis is somehow doing this for you, but you can also learn to do this without it (The Molecule of More by Daniel Z. Lieberman is great if you want to understand how one can do this).
The only exception I know is Erdos with amphetamines, which is of course different.
I'm a snob who does not appreciate Kerouac, rock musicians etc. It may be different for others who do.
Cannabis use is still very taboo in most professional settings. More taboo than religion, sexuality, mental health, etc. But still we know that composers like Chopin and Berlioz were Opium users.
This says that the drug creates the ability to relearn something, but the learning process itself is of course mediated by the setting provided - learning is always about interaction with the environment. This has nothing to do with weasel words, it simply illustrates the mode of action.
Or rather it can't really be studied in natural (uncontrolled) setting, given that it's a heavily controlled substance. You just can't give it to people and let them run loose. You also can't just collect their opinions on experience with otherwise acquired MDMA, because it's cut, altered, often other substances or a mix of substances.
Also as a scientist you do not want to be seen as supporting self-medication with with illegal and dangerous (MDMA has low therapeutic index) substances.
> may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning. That's a lot more weasel words than the headline.
I see it more as a careful scientist wording, given that it's really hard to study psychedelic drugs.
Is this referring to something explicit? I'd think it's certainly possible it could work in many, but only certain settings have been or can be studied, for specific definitions of "study".
I think the ultimate source of the article's claims is this study, but there might be others I am not aware of - the research of psychedelics has exploded lately.
There's also therapy with LSD.
It then becomes infuriating that a an ideology towards drug control that seems to be universally regarded by informed people to be misguided and causing more harm than simply doing nothing, is still interfering with our collective ability to evaluate these substances in an objective way.
I think this substance is useful, but its usage is best kept on a (bi-)monthly basis so you have time to recover between sessions.
A better candidate than MDMA for microdosing with similar effect would be 2-CB. It does not deplete any of your serotonin, and you recover from it in a couple of days, even after massive doses.
A couple of days doesn't sound great tbh.
Last time I used it I stayed comfortably at home. The day after I could go hiking in the Alps without any problem.
Anyway, the tiredness you feel after using 2-CB is nowhere near as close to that you experience with MDMA, which may last for weeks. Which leads me to think 2-CB would be better for microdosing.
Also this is in no way me advocating 2-CB has being completely safe. Most people who tried it deem it so, but as of yet few researches have been conducted on that substance.
I must have learnt so much about drum & bass
Now, I really just want everyone to feel great. Most people who I talk to seem to be stuck in a rut of stimulus/response patterns and feel unappreciated. I really enjoy listening to people, even their bullshit. Making someone laugh is one of the most enjoyable and satisfying things in the world.
It's fun, it might even be called liberating, and it definitely can affect your brain. But let's not go so far as to suggest that it's this magic thing that will turn you into an awesome person.
Now, they do say that alcoholics make the best writers, and likewise I'm sure that some people are more creative when they are on psychedelics or other drugs (assuming that by "creative" one means the ability to create abstract art, not the ability to design a bridge). But it also comes with a significant cost in intelligence and coherence.
MDMA was different. I was in my 30s before I tried it: Before that point, I generally suggested folks do shrooms or LSD at least once in their life. Not anymore. MDMA can change the way you relate to yourself and your experiences. Profound change - things like no longer being so bothered by traumatic things in your past. There is good reason there are stories of MDMA being used as a marriage counseling guide: You are more comfortable and open talking about things you might have avoided. Which, really, is why it is being used for therapy and PTSD. Many of us just don't need the therapy bit.
Sidenote: I make both abstract and non-abstract art while tripping - the non-abstract tends to be a little surreal. Of course, I make art while sober, too - both abstract and not. I*m sometimes just more free when I am on LSD, but I do make similar stuff sober. Abstract art isn't a lack of creativity, by the way.
But this is because I do art. If you were doing a lot of maths or sciences, LSD might allow you to figure out a problem from a point of view you didn't consider before. Or maybe you make music and get some creativity there - this is really common too. LSD doesn't mean you are making bad products, just that you should look over them when sober to be sure.
Of course, you might be on of the many people that cannot make a straight line with a pen while on LSD, and that's pretty normal.
About ten years ago I met an old friend whose life had gone to complete shit, he was obviously very paranoid and worried, bizarrely asked me and my other friend had we been laughing at him when all three of us shared a joke. He was a very very heavey user at one point. Prior to all this he was bright and out going. Now just wreck.
Anyway, it's a seriously potent drug with some serious long term effects (imo)
Furthermore, folks should realistically do some research. I've done a fair amount of MDMA, but have never done ecstasy. I knew starting up that once a week was most definitely too much - of course, maybe I was older than most folks when they try it.
And I'll go as far as to say that once a week is definitely too often: The spouse and I were more concerned about being safe and not getting the stress and burnout we knew could happen, but isn't as likely if you have good space. I think the most we have ever allowed ourselves was once a month and I've never taken it at festivals. Just home.
Heavy use is often always different. And this is one of those very real things that legalisation could help with - actual information to keep people safe.
I do not blame you for staying away :)
Haven't done in over 1.5 years, still has a stack, and not sure if will save for a special occasion or just throw away.
I've also done psychedelics and my experience is the opposite.
I really don't see being high on THC or on acid the same as being drunk on alcohol at all.
Maybe it's because I don't like / enjoy alcohol but I do enjoy cannabis and psychedelics.
But when I'm drunk I can feel I'm unable to think properly and everything seems to be laggy.
I don't get any of that with thc and psychedelics, it's a different state of mind sure, but I don't think it's being induced by "poisoning your brain"
The same goes for the existentialism part when it comes to psychedelics. I have a new perspective on having children while not having had children myself. But the whole idea of that they are little reflections of you and your girlfriend bundled up in one which makes huge emotional impact on you, that makes a lot more sense now.
Or another one: sometimes I act like I'm on mdma (while I'm sober and reasonable enough), those days are a blast!
How drugs screwed me over: 6 months to a year of almost losing touch with reality (constantly needing to stay rational, so that I wouldn't lose myself) or being a bit too paranoid for a few months (just a bit). Or wanting to jump out of the window while on shrooms (I had countermeasures in place, never thought I needed them).
So yea it's dangerous stuff. You can learn something amazing from them, but you can also learn a lot from intense exercise drills (if you treat them like a drug-like experience), or meditation, or dancing, or singing, or falling in love, or making friends, or talking with friends.
Goodluck and have fun with life :)
Last time I measured out a small dose and went for a walk alone, then ran into a friend and got to talking about my current boggle, drew a straight line between that and my childhood and teenage experiences and… woke up in the next morning feeling deeply depressed and just had to put myself together again to get my plans moving and in two hours I had.
If ever there was an example of ‘drug enhanced talking therapy’ that was it.
My understanding though is that it is rough on your serotonin system and if you do it hundreds of times it is more harm than good.
There's also the site https://www.drugsdata.org/ where you can send in drugs for testing.
The difference between medicine and poison is the dose. "The dose makes the poison", as they say.
What makes you say this? As far I'm aware, the typical dosages that people use with psychedelics, when taken in a safe environment, don't cause any negative health effects -- and often have some positive long-term benefits.
You don't need a high dose of LSD either, though it has been a really, really long time since I had any sort of aha! moment with it - but I*m pretty comfortable with myself and have done a LOT of LSD over the years. Mushrooms are similar, so long as you take enough to be out of commission for a little while.
Sidenote: Thanks for being one of the people that wishes good tidings on other folks. You rarely know when that attitude is the thing that changes their day (or more).
(I can't talk about ecstasy, as I've never tried)
In general, 125mg for the first dose, then an option of 65mg about 1,5 hours later. My memory is fuzzy since I'm not generally the one weighing it out and it has been a while. I would rather 100-110 for the first dose personally.
They have tested different doses, but this is a good general guideline.
And again, look things up to be safe!
I find law laughable in this regard and i find law makers a bunch of clowns for not giving me the basic freedom of finding ways to make myself happy.
We need a constitutional law that prohibits prosecution for victimless crime. And we needed it already a long time ago. Think of all the resources wasted, lives destroyed by upholding such rotten laws: laws against having fun.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
People seem to upvote it. I think this is a serious issue holding us back as a species.
BTW mad respect for moderating this forum.
That sort of thing makes discussion more predictable. That's really why we don't want it here. It's not about disagreeing on the issues, it's about wanting to say and hear things that we haven't all said and heard many times before.