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Comment by game_the0ry | Hacker News Reader

A couple of years ago, I noticed the youtube recommendations that would get were a lot less interesting, though still relevant to me somehow. At some point I started seeing a lot more "mainstream" content, especially after media companies figured out that they needed to have a youtube presence in order to stay relevant.

So I wonder if the algorithm the switched to had something to do with them potentially losing attention from users.

I can't speak to tik tok, never used it, never will.

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I wish someone at YouTube could explain, but the recommendation algo is nothing like what it used to be. Every refresh would bring a gem, now it's mostly the same videos, often from the same channel if I happened to watch a few in a row... Very odd.

I also feel this way. In the past I was completely satisfied with the recommended content.

I now find it over-calibrates to recommend based on recently watched videos, whether the same channel or the same style.

For example, I watched a video the other day, something like "Boris Johnson pronouncing the word _____". Next thing I know, my recommendations are flooded with similar videos that I don't really want to spend my time on.

This deters me from watching videos that come up that I'm mildly curious in watching, but don't really want to watch more of.

This is exactly my experience, the absolute worst is when it clearly recommends videos that I have already watched, as if it thinks I've forgotten and somehow won't notice since apparently I'm the guy from Momento.

It feels like I keep seeing same videos recommended over and over again. And it is not like Youtube does not know that I have watched majority of the length...

yes, Youtube's recommendation algorithm got very bad. The front page always shows more or less the same videos - many of which I have already watched...

That's the worst. I already watched these videos while logged in the app. Why am I being suggested these again? Also, thousands of interesting hours of video are uploaded daily, why am I seeing the same 5+ years old videos over and over again?

I noticed this as well. Good thing though, so I don't waste as much time on there.

It looks like it uses only a hand full of recently watched videos.

Every TikTok user I know tells me that the primary reason they use it is the algorithm. Apparently it’s way ahead of YouTube. Anecdotally I am in the same boat as you—ended up removing the YouTube suggestion sidebar with an adblocker due to its increasingly poor quality.

One anecdote that I heard about the TikTok algo is that it favors new creators with <5k subscribers and actively pushes that content to new users. This is opposed to how Youtube does it, where more established creators are pushed over news ones.

I feel like this is what really helps TikTok always have fresh content. If you want to become a YouTuber, the path to having a good following can be years of grind. With TikTok, there is a good shot your first video might just propel you to stardom. Thus more people are inclined to create content for TikTok. It creates a feedback loop

Or, as famously yelled by Ballmer: Developers! Developers! Developers!, where the developers are content creators.

You can make really great content on YT and reach an audience. Creators like Tom Scott prove it's possible. But you have to hit a minimum production quality or the algorithm is going to discard you. Mostly this means that you still need a team of people to make it on YT. On TT, it's still totally fine to make bad production quality that has great informational content. So yes, YT has niche content, when considered against TV, but TT has one more factor of magnitude more niche content.

For a bit of anecdotes of the people that I am following: About 30% come from YouTube/Other Internet Media and produce TikTok style content, about 20% are TT Stars, and 50% are these small creators that YT wouldn't even consider. This group, checking their followers, averages about 10k. On YT I don't subscribe to a single person below 100k followers.

I have Category Theory TT accounts followed, but no Category Theory YT channels subscribed. Do CT have YT accounts? Possibly. But not once has YT shown me that content. This might be a problem with me, but TT resolves it through their natural flow, and as I am significantly more advanced than the average user, a problem with me is a problem for the platform.

At this point the path is going to be to start on TT and only move to YT once you have established a following that can make it over the YT recommendation escape velocity.

Developers! Developers! Developers!

I don't think channel going back 15 years is good example for new creators. I would expect them to keep somewhat relevant as they have been trough enough cycles to keep some audience always.

YT content is more longform and making that good and engaging takes tons of practice according to my observation. Look at early content of some big names like MKBHD for example. You can see the potential in them but they are nowhere as good as their new content.

Anecdotally this seems correct to me. A friend of mine has had several viral TikTok videos hit millions of views, and he's only been on TikTok for a little while. He did no outside promotion. I think the only way a new YouTube video would do that is if it was absolutely earth shattering in some regard.

This is interesting. I think this approach goes hand in hand with a much lower quality bar on TikTok. We have an expectation that YouTube videos have a certain production quality, so pushing new creators would often result in unmet expectations. On TikTok new creators can record a 15 second dance and be instantly indistinguishable quality-wise from more experienced creators.

I feel like some AI has decided that this video is "good for you". I have some videos on my feed for weeks on end. Now some videos I have already seen are reappearing without the red bar to signify that I have already watched them.

Something definitely stinks with the algo on YT currently. At least for me

Exact same here, frustrates me to no end. They conveniently forget I've already watched some videos and they are shown as unwatched when I clearly remember watching them. Then others which DO show the red bar on the bottom indicating I've watched it, yet they still recommend it to me?!? Sometimes I have DOZENS of these recommendations in my feed. Lately it's been bad enough for me to really consider ditching YT for good.

IMHO, we should be able to select or tune algo on YT, FB, Goo, etc. to serve us content. One algo is not enough for everybody.

Same experience for me the last couple of weeks.

Veritasium did a video on this recently [1] where he talks about how YouTube saw falling engagement when only showing users their subscribed channels, so they started recommending more non-subscribed content a couple years ago (he talks about this around the 2-3 minute mark in the video).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2xHZPH5Sng

I feel like the subscription system takes too much manual upkeep that the average user is not willing to do. If I look at my subscriptions list there is stuff I haven't paid attention to for 5+ years because its too much effort to bulk unsubscribe. But the youtube front page picks up on this and just never shows me any of it.

The algorithm does a decent job of showing the stuff I have been interested in recently over just a simple mix of my subscriptions.

I feel the same. Recommendations are as simple on youtube as “get top 10 videos in your country”

I wish someone could make a YouTube 2011 clone. Maybe call it YouTube classic — of course this would be a trademark infringement, so it would have to be named something else. But seriously, if I can get YouTube 2011 back with its human curated categories and recommended videos sidebar that is based on the video that is currently being watched, then I would be so happy!

I think I found today what I am looking for. https://utreon.com/ looks to be a close contender to what I seek.

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