Silence Is a Commons (1983) | Hacker News Reader

Silence Is a Commons (1983)

dlc.dlib.indiana.edu

140 pointscsbartus17 comments

I came across an interesting podcast last week that discussed Ivan Illich and how his ideas relate to modern software. This may be of interest to anyone who would like to explore these ideas further:

“How is the state of modern software like losing at Tetris? Stephen Kell joins Henry to chat about Ivan Illich's thought (counter-productivity, radical monopoly, critique of institutions) applied to modern software culture! We talk about the software/hardware arms race, how our default is more is better, tech being all-consuming, the tyranny of updates. (recorded in Dec 2020) Transcript: https://hopeinsource.com/tetris ”

https://overcast.fm/+O8teSMuNU

Thanks for sharing, I'm very interested in how his ideas might help us understand open source as well! Actually just posted a few chats recently on Illich, the last one speaking on this and related essays. https://hopeinsource.com/illich, https://hopeinsource.com/silence

> "a commons is a space which is established by custom. It can not be regulated by law. The law would never be able to give sufficient details to regulate a commons."

Thanks, Henry.

I have been very much enjoying working through your podcast episodes since discovering it.

If you don't listen to The Convivial Society already, it's a blog/podcast that deep dives into the themes of Illich and his contemporaries with plenty of musing of its own

https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/

Edit: and here's his musings on the OP article

https://theconvivialsociety.substack.com/p/impossible-silenc...

To think that this speech took place over 3 decades ago,that only a minority of us are able to see even today the impact of mass broadcast communications channels most people consume daily, it is an impressively well articulated premonition.

Perhaps we need a few more decades for more of us to understand what has been going on. Unless we all get turned into apes before it being too late, then simply unable to understand and even less so stop the destructions of habitats worldwide.

A couple past threads:

Silence Is a Commons (1983) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26007100 - Feb 2021 (31 comments)

Silence is a Commons (1983) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5402711 - March 2013 (2 comments)

Illich-related:

Deschooling Society (1970) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23821855 - July 2020 (195 comments)

Deschooling Society - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21578620 - Nov 2019 (1 comment)

Tools for Conviviality (1973) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21512587 - Nov 2019 (6 comments)

Deschooling Society - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13408250 - Jan 2017 (1 comment)

Deschooling Society - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285107 - Aug 2008 (45 comments)

Probably one of the most interesting thinkers whose ideas are relevant today. His idea of "radical monopoly" describes our "apps for everything" present and where the platforms are, and his thoughts on cities and traffic are really interesting.

As we are on an Illich thing here, can I strongly recommend his book "Deschooling Society", which not only predicts the Web, but has some cogent suggestions for getting us out of the mess that higher education in the West is in at the moment.

Didn’t Ivan Ilyich die some time ago? Did the autopsy ever figure out what caused the pain in his side?

So sorry this won't get the upvotes it deserves.

I found this to be relevant: "Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8

The appropriation of the grassland by the lords was challenged, but the more fundamental transformation of grassland (or of roads) from commons to resource has happened, until recently, without being subjected to criticism.

A key chapter in Karl Marx' Das Kapital describes the process of enclose as the first step in the creation of the capitalist system. Essentially, Marx did describe this process of both labor and nature become mere resources to exploit and a significant amount of Illich's analysis essentially comes from Marx here - for good or ill. He's taking it in a different direction, certainly. But the "no one else thought of this" tone seems a bit disingenuous.

I found this looking for a comparison https://la.utexas.edu/users/hcleaver/hmconillich.html

"commodities on which modem survival depends."

Yes. The radio frequency spectrum is a commons too.

To get silence in a Japanese city, you just buy a pair of Boise or Apple noise canceling earbuds, and to talk you just buy SOURCENEXT's POCKETALK ai translation device with licensed Doraemon theme. Of course it just translates commons to コモンズ. I was thinking about this exact thing standing in the noisy headphone section of Yodobashi camera. why must i pay for silence..? Its always interesting how the warnings of old cultural theorists seem to taken as an instruction manual.

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