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Comment by d--b | Hacker News Reader

Cause the whole article reads like "developers are whiny assholes who don't know shit about computers". And yes, it starts with an attack and ends with an attack too.

1. It's not operations problem for sure, but I certainly don't bash people for not knowing things I am the expert of.

2. Fine

3. The OP's saying he doesn't want to know!

4. Well, writing applications is sitting atop a stack of technologies more and more abstract. A developer not knowing what happens in an IP packet is the same as an infrastructure guy not knowing what happens in an NP junction.

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> A developer not knowing what happens in an IP packet

I don't care if devs understand IP packets, TCP congestion control algorithms, or anything similarly low-level. If they do, that's awesome, but it's not expected. I do expect them to have a basic understanding of expected latencies for intra-DC vs. internet, why running Flask in production isn't a good idea, and if they're really sharp, an inkling of how Kubernetes networking works.

I think I understand your sentiment, but what's wrong with flask??

i assume the poster means running flask in production without something like nginx in front to serve as the webserver.

the flask build in webserver is not production grade software in my opinion.

It is also the opinion of the people who wrote the built-in webserver. If you try to run it in production mode, it'll emits this warning on startup:

> WARNING: This is a development server. Do not use it in a production deployment. > Use a production WSGI server instead.

I don't expect junior devs to have a sense for what is production-grade and what is not, but if they try to ship software that explicitly warns against being used in production, you've got a real liability on your hands.

I do. Why should devs not understand the environment in which they are developing? If they don't understand the concepts then they're not developers.

Why do we call these people "software engineers" if they're not engineers. There is endless documentation, there is all the resources needed. Allowing devs not to know what they're doing is a complete failure of anything approaching professionalism.

> Cause the whole article reads like "developers are whiny assholes who don't know shit about computers". And yes, it starts with an attack and ends with an attack too.

There is no attack in the text. There is a complaint that issues presented to operations often lack the basic level of detail and due diligence that they should have. You are free to disagree with the author's expected level of due diligence on issues; I think you'd be wrong to, but you can. However, it isn't an attack.

You perceive a non-attack as an attack, and respond with an explicit attack and name-calling. That actually makes you the aggressor.

Hmm, who is the asshole here?

It read more like "these developers are asking poorly formed, difficult to answer questions", and frankly reminded me of a LOT of r/CodingHelp problems I've seen lately. Aside from that the author seems to repeatedly have empathy and admiration for developers but thinks that there is a systematic disfunction. There is definitely a little "old man shouts at clouds" too, but at least to me this article read as a legitimate discussion of some pain points, certainly not a hit piece.

Hmm, it sounds like the opposite to me. I find it really hard to read because of the constant ‘devs are stupid’ comments.

There is a legitimate point buried there, but I just kept seeing red reading it.

There is an organizational gap. It's mostly everywhere, and why only DevOps can bridge that gap. It's caused by missing technical leadership.

So anything said before that happens, and it'll happen for you partly especially at first, is only going to enrage.

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