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Comment by marstall | Hacker News Reader

In Boston, similar emotions pertain to the Charles River, which runs through it majestically. It’s currently swimmable on many days after decades of cleanup, but finding a Bostonian who would be comfortable taking a dip wouldn’t be easy. Same situation with the Boston Harbor

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Well I would also be apprehensive about swimming in a river described as "swimmable on many days".

Merry Christmas! Happy New Year! Otherwise, get the f out of the water.

Even most beaches on the ocean have days with no swimming flags caused by algae bloom, storm drain off, excess sewage release in the area, etc.

That seems like it must be an exaggeration. Not once in my entire life have I seen a beach closed due to any of these factors. I know it happens, but I don't think it's as common as you make it sound. The only time I've ever seen a beach closed was due to rough surf.

Of course, I don't claim to have been to most of the beaches out there, but I've been to a few! Have I just been getting really lucky?

I've been going to the beach several times a week for about 13 years, even during winter. Never seen it closed. They monitor water quality regularly and the results are readily available.

You're lucky. I live near the Baltic Sea, a relatively shallow sea with a very narrow link to the ocean, and agricultural runoff and sewage from 100 million people drain into it. We have very regular algae blooms, typically late summer when the water warms up sufficiently (for some reason, even though it was very hot, very little this summer).

The sewage problem is largely solved nowadays, thanks to modern sewage treatment plants, but thanks to the disastrous EU agricultural policy (CAP) there has been no improvement at all in the agricultural runoff for over 20 years.

Happens enough times in LA to have a page that tracks it: http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/phcommon/public/eh/water_qu...

Sure there are always exceptions, and it may have been just some unfortunate phrasing, all I know is that the phrasing explicitly didn't specify that the river being unswimmable was at all an exception.

It's like if you asked a lifeguard if it was safe to swim and they replied "Many people survive".

I grew up in Boston and actually did some sailing on the river as a kid - we coasted around in Sunfishes for the most part. Unlike literally every other sailing instruction course I ever took there was no forced capsizing tutorial to learn how to uncapisize a Sunfish - mostly because nobody's parents would ever sign onto a waiver that said "Oh btw, we're going to briefly dunk your kid into the Charles".

I love the Charles River and spent a lot of time growing up around it in Cambridge and city-side on the Esplanade. I've got great memories from both Pops and pop concerts in the Hatch Shell - but yea, no where in those memories is anything about voluntarily going into the river - avoiding even dipping a toe into that was ingrained into us at a young age.

Anecdata time. I am from elsewhere so I didn't have that sort of context. I had a chance to be rowing on the Charles at some point but forgot to bring water with me so I just drank from the river with no ill effect. Water seemed pretty clear and fresh. I also remember around that time there would be periodic news praising the river cleanup success so I probably never got to see it dirty.

And you're saying you're currently not a Zombie? Oh vanish the thought!

Actually, yea, I think the river is quite clean. Especially now that I've seen bodies of water that have an oily sheen on them - and ones that sting if you get them on your skin. I think I'd probably be pretty adverse to swimming in the Charles - but I'd definitely prefer it any day over False Creek in Vancouver.

My biggest concern with questionable water these days is always the bed they rest on - usually the water tends to be pretty clear even in heavily polluted areas (though oil floats so some forms of pollution are quite contrary to that) - but all the really dangerous stuff tends to slowly separate out and settle on the bottom. It's when kids get in and kick up the muck at the bottom of one of these rivers that I get most concerned.

Also yea - this is pretty much all anecdotal as well.

Some forms of environmental pollution or toxicity, like bacteria, can result in an infection that makes you sick, or not. Other forms, like heavy metals (common in industrial sites), can cause serious chronic problems through prolonged or repeated exposure, but are not necessarily going to cause much harm from a single low-ish dose.

I capsized in the Charles one summer around 2007 or so (and swallowed some water) with the MIT Sailing Club. I didn't have any immediate ill effects but about 5 minutes after I got back to the dock I was afflicted by the most painful earsplitting headache I have ever experienced even to this day. I curled up in a ball and thought I was dying of a stroke.

The Charles was cleaned up by 2007 and was not dirty.

Not sure if you've ever seen this, but former (Massachusetts) Governor Weld staged a little publicity stunt several years ago by jumping into the Charles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiGbMmqrYrY

I spent July 4th, 1993 on the Esplanade in Boston. I won’t forget the loud groan from the crowd around me followed by collective “ewwws” at the sight of some drunk people on a boat falling into the Charles.

I didn't grow up in Boston but spent a lot of time sailing (and accordingly, a decent amount swimming) in the Charles River Basin in the past several years (go Tech Sailing!). Only once ever had a bad experience - got terribly sick for 24 hrs after a windy windsurfing day where I was in the water more than I was on the board. I was told this was "river fever" and it happens from time to time! Otherwise a great body of water.

The days the Charles is unswimmable is a few hot summer days after rainstorms (and in the winters when it freezes up!). In the summer the water is warm enough and the runoff after storms brings in enough nutrients from the city that cyanobacteria grow like crazy and create a paralysis risk. On these days the Boston DCR does a pretty good job making sure everyone knows to stay dry for the day.

There's even a well-known song about the Charles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XRy-jFCm8

London has many "vanished" rivers, the most famous of which is the Fleet.

In earlier times it was nice enough that a royal palace was built on its banks, but by the Restoration it had become what Neal Stephenson's _Baroque Cycle_ described as a "river of shit" (the palace had been converted into a prison by then, too).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Fleet

'the palace had been converted into a prison by then, too'

So considerate!

I grew up in the Boston area in the 60s, before the Charles River was dammed to prevent Boston Harbor tides from flushing into the Charles Basin. Driving along Storrow Drive at low tide in summer was a malodorous experience.

Then in the 80s, long after the dam was put in, they had enormous air bubblers in the Charles Basin to stir up the stagnant bottom water. Fun to sail through.

Thanks for introducing me to the word "malodorous"

The water in the Charles feels slimey. Like it has a thin microcoat of grossness on top.

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