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Comment by mistrQ | Hacker News Reader

I'm really trying to understand whether grids are relevant to me as a web dev. I've been looking for good boilerplate code for a long time now and haven't been able to extract any from my own work as all the sites I've worked on differ quite significantly.

Why would anyone want presentational classes in their html? The whole point of the semantic/presentational separation of html/css is so that I don't need to touch the html when I want to make a presentational change. This is a backwards step.

Does anyone know of a responsive css framework that doesn't require me to mess with my html?

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At the end of the day, CSS frameworks like this generally aren't as useful for web developers as they are for developers like me who don't do web development full time an just want something that takes the pain away. The reason you don't see a need for it is because you're not the target audience for most of these frameworks.

Of course grids are relevant to you as a web dev - they are basic graphic design principles. Whether you should use any of the grid "frameworks", is another matter all together.

Once you learn how grids work (ie in the layout of graphics and text elements) - you can make your own grids and not bother with the frameworks or template code, etc.

I meant to say "grid frameworks".

Of course grids are highly relevant to design. My problem is with the grid frameworks that are bulky with preset classes that expect me to use in my html.

I don't think it's relevant in my html whether a div is 2 columns or 8, that's presentational. Why can't someone make a framework that has clean standard html and a css file with lots of boilerplate grid code that I can use to apply to certain divs in my html?

When I want to make a change to the appearance of my page then I go into the CSS file, not mess around applying classes to my div's in my HTML file. That was kind of the point of CSS in the first place.

Grid Frameworks are for the frontend developer who wants to spend as little time as possible dealing with alignment of content.

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