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Comment by jeppesen-io | Hacker News Reader

I know a pipedream, but if apple provided the docs and drivers for Linux on m1, it would really cement the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice

Amazing progress - but I wonder if getting accelerated gui is 10x the current effort

No skin in the game, but can't wait to see how this progresses

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Apple is not known to provide any documentation, and it's incredibly hard to get Linux running since the introduction of T1 chips.

The T1 had zero impact whatsoever on getting Linux running. The T2 did, but only because Apple's NVMe implementation wasn't quite spec compliant. The trouble we've had with Apple hardware other than that is that Apple have made whatever design choices suit them best rather than following any external standards.

> The T1 had zero impact whatsoever on getting Linux running.

If you define running as "Linux boots", than this is correct, but as the the T1 chip provides access to the Touch Bar which is necessary to have function keys, I'd argue that there was indeed impact of the T1 chip for Linux essential compatibility. Also access to the webcam is provided by the T1 chip and required a quirk to work, as well as Touch Id, which isn't even supported at all yet.

What the parent comment was probably referring to is not the impact of the T1 chip per se, but of all changes Apple introduced with the MacBook Pros featuring the T1 chip, like a different way of interacting with the input devices, a different setup for audio and Bluetooth, a new chipset for Wifi and so on. The sheer number of changes caused these devices having a pretty bad compatibility with Linux when they came out and even today there are still a lot of unsolved issues around audio, Bluetooth, Wifi and other components [1]. And of course some features like the extended capabilities of the Touch Bar or the Touch Id sensor are still completely unsupported.

Btw: T1 MacBook Pros also required a quirk for NVMe, because Apples implementation back then also wasn't standard-compliant [2], [3].

[1]: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux

[2]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/124298bd03acebd9c9d...

[3]: https://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-nvme/2017-Februa...

I didn't mean that T1 was directly responsible, but running Linux is quite difficult after T1/Touchbar MacBooks were introduced in 2016.

WiFi and audio devices still don't work on most models released after that: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux

That's something that changed for the worse in the last decades. In the 2000's Apple documentation was terrific.

It puzzles me how things like that go. Google and Microsoft improved their developer documentation in the last years

I’m pretty sure if you’re not signed into iCloud, you’re of no use to Apple. They’d probably prefer folks not buy their hardware just to wipe it.

I'm pretty sure that after paying Apple ~$1700 for a M1 MacBook Air, they not only don't care if I don't sign into iCloud, they don't care if I smash it repeatedly with rocks. They have the money already.

They definitely do care. They want you in their entire ecosystem using the Apple Watch, iCloud etc. then you’re a sticky customer who’s paying them more money and less likely to ever leave.

> They have the money already.

Not how a publicly traded company works. Broadly speaking, services are becoming a larger and larger part of apples bottom line

Yes, I know. I also know that if you look at the numbers Apple still makes the majority of their income on hardware. By a lot. (Like, 79% to 21% as of the last reported quarter.) Maybe one day this will not be true, but that day is not today, and it is unlikely to be a day next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.

In any case, I was making a dry joke about Apple not wanting your money if you weren't signed into iCloud, because how all companies, private or public, work generally includes "this person giving us some money may not be as good as this person giving us more money, but is obviously better than this person giving us no money at all." One day I will learn that dry humor rarely flies on Hacker News, but that day is not today, and it is unlikely to be a day next year, or the year after that, or the year after that. So it goes.

I think that's a little dramatic and lacking nuance, but I can't disagree

Not signed into iCloud on my M1 Mac mini and everything works perfectly.

We need a legislation that will compel hardware manufacturers to provide such documentation. Simply so that we can reduce e-waste and protect the consumer in case manufacturer decides to abandon the platform or change it so its use is no longer safe or acceptable.

> the current defacto standard of a MacBook as the development laptop of choice

the problem with that is that the macbook hardware sucks. a lot.

The number of developers on Macbooks suggests that there are differing yet equally valid opinions out there.

The trackpad is unparalleled. I'm assuming they have a patent on it, because the physical clicker trackpads in every other laptop feel awful.

It's good for a trackpad, but I personally really don't like it; it's too big and I'll take a Thinkpad with smaller trackpad, 3 physical buttons and a touchpoint any day.

Maybe it sucks, but still much less than anything else that I can buy for the same price. I can even buy two different MacBooks and be sure that the hardware is identical, even the screen.

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