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One of my coworker and good friend literally named NPCs in the game we were developing together at work after my pronunciation mistakes: kunter (counter strike), eevol, etc. In French we have an 'ee' sound you dont even have in english, it's much more 'ee' than ee. Took me years to hear the difference. Pretty sure it is one of the hardest spot for a french: beach, snitch, sheep, cheat, etc. And none of those sound like an i in french (e.g frite).

Snitch doesn't sound like beach, sheep, cheat. I'm not sure how to approximate snitch in French, maybe you can't. The Google card that comes up if you search "snitch pronunciation" is right though.

Hi, congrats on your launch.

This app would have been ideal for me; I'm now looking to improve my pronunciation after working on my grammar for a while. But I lost trust in the first 15 minutes; if you check lesson 1/4 of "Unvoiced and Voiced consonants," the app expects me to repeat the following phrase with an American accent:

> This house is a part of a low-income housing project.

But the coach audio clip does not say that; the coach says:

> This house is part of a low-income housing project.

So the audio clip of the coach features what seems to be correct grammar, the engine that corrects my pronunciation does not. If I try to say the phrase the way the app describes it, with "is a part", I'm able to pass the exercise. If I say the way the coach says it ("is part"), then it fails me.

So is my perception that the app does not follow American grammar. It is not great to have an app that helps me improve my pronunciation while it screws my grammar.

Also, how do I delete my account?

Hey there, thanks for checking us out!

The error that you pointed out has been fixed, and now the sentence matches the coach's sample -- feel free to double check this on the app. Both "part of" and "a part of" are grammatically correct. That said, we definitely agree that the coach sample should match the written sentence.

By the way, potential issues such as these is exactly why we added the flag feature on the practice cards, through which you can report any errors in spelling or other types of issues. We strive for 100% accuracy, but there are still real people behind this making all the content, so we appreciate user input to make things always better.

If you would like to delete your account, we can help. Just email us at support@boldvoice.com with your account details.

Have you considered adapting your app for deaf people?

A friend of mine developed a pronunciation practice app for deaf speakers of Korean as a student, which won them an innovation award. But according to my friend, the pronunciation score (which was based on comparing spectrograms or something) didn't work all that well, and the award was mostly due to the non-technical team members making up a heart-warming story to promote their project.

I assume your feedback system is more advanced (can you share some details on how you determine what recommendations to make?) and would also work for deaf speakers. But you can't really assume familiarity with another spoken language, so you'd probably need explanations specifically tailored to deaf people.

The problem with adapting this to other forms of atypical speech is that their recommendation system likely relies on a catalog the phonemes L2 speakers have issues with (the example most people know is the Japanese "L" "R" swap) so it's much easier to create courses with specific focuses and solutions.

If Google's Project Euphonia [0] is actually still ongoing and they release their dataset/methodology of training models with that sparse dataset I can see your idea as approachable; even accented speech is a tough problem to work on considering how many variants exist worldwide (but their approach looks good!).

[0] https://sites.research.google/euphonia/about/

That's an interesting use case that we could potentially explore down the line, thanks for sharing!

Right now, we're focusing on non-native English speakers, as it's a problem that we personally understand best -- as well as a very large market.

I just want to note that for many deaf people (including practically all people that were born deaf) sign language is their first language, and thus, technically, English isn't their native language.

edit: I'm also curious to know more about what kinds of analysis/algorithms you do to detect the accent, if you can share a little bit. Can your app distinguish between different American accents? Or could it hear the user talking in African-American English and assume it is "incorrect"?

I tried to build something like this a couple of years ago, just by using speech-to-text, and that worked really badly (but it was better than nothing). I've given BoldVoice a spin and am very impressed by how well it works on phoneme level - well done, congrats on launching!

Thanks for trying it out, glad to hear you liked the tech!

We're continuing to improve and expand both the technical capabilities of the pronunciation assessment, as well as add more varied & exciting content that a user can go through.

That sounds like a very nice idea! I'm French and not confident at all in my oral English because of my pronunciation. I did a bit of job hunting recently, and I was afraid that the topic of English would come up precisely because of that.

Hey we are in the same boat, like many French people I guess! I’m confident speaking English but it feels so frustrating sometimes to not be understood by my interlocutors. Especially by other non native English speakers who usually have a hard time understanding my accent.

I’m definitely going to check this product out, I always wanted something like it.

We're here for you! If you have any feedback, questions or issues, please reach out to us at founders@boldvoice.com! We're constantly working on improving the app and adding more engaging content.

Hey, that's exactly why we're here. Happy to have you check it out and let us know if this is the type of program you would want to keep doing & practicing. If you have any feedback, questions or issues, please reach out to us at founders@boldvoice.com!

I have very mixed feelings on this.

First of all, it feels like a patch for latent discrimination. I'd rather strive towards a world where accents matter less than fixing accents. Sure very thick accents can hinder communication but I feel like improving that a bit is enough. There's no need to perfectly emulate the native accent (and let's not forget about the differences between say Jersey, Oklahoma, Boston and L.A.).

Secondly, I'm not sure an app is really needed for this. Someone dedicated enough to install an app for this might also be dedicated enough to turn on Netflix and just speak along until they sound similar to the actors.

Either way, good luck to the team.

> First of all, it feels like a patch for latent discrimination.

Try learning a language that's not English. You're definitely judged on your accent, ie. your ability to properly pronounce words. If you want to fully assimilate to the environment you choose to exist in, speaking with less of an accent helps with being understood. Also, the 'standard' American accent (ie. Hollywood/West Coast accent) is understood by absolutely anyone; even those who are new to speaking English.

Heck, even English speakers from regions such as the Caribbean, England, Australia, etc..., turn their accent 'off' in business environments to be better understood. Many native English speakers can't even understand creole from the Caribbean for example.

Accents can definitely also hamper communication. I'm a native English speaker who's interacted with many immigrants so I can definitely understand almost every accent. But two immigrants both speaking English as their second language and from different parts of the world will often have trouble, I've seen it plenty. Even my girlfriend, who speaks English at quite a high level but isn't native, has a difficult time if I speak too quickly using local slang and pronunciation (and our accent barely deviates from standard American English).

Focusing on a standard pronunciation, especially in a job or school environment, helps a lot.

Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

When it comes to striving for a world where accents don't matter, we feel the same way.

In fact, our dialect coach, Ron Carlos, slacked me earlier today: "We truly hope that one day accents won’t matter, but until then we have folks who feel embarrassed about their accent which keeps them from showing up with their full selves. We’re here to help those folks feel more confident with their speech."

What we're trying to help users with is learning the physical skills that make up their account: pronunciation, speech rhythm, intonation, stress -- ultimately, how to speak the way they want, with the ultimate goal of helping the user become more confident and clear in their speech. If the way they want to sound is exactly like someone from Jersey, Boston, L.A. or anywhere else, we're happy to support them!

I wouldn't really call it discrimination if the dude on the phone has a hard time deciphering what type of sandwich you are trying to order, or talking to a stranger in a loud bar who needs you to keep repeating yourself.

I think the need for this stems from a desire to be understood. Though I understand why the OP would list discrimination in their sales pitch.

How do you decide what the 'standard American accent' is?

I spent some time on a remote team working with a great group of folks from the US South. I'm Canadian. I picked up a lot of accent changes that stick with me today ("y'all" is the best plural second-person pronoun ever).

But even things like California vs New York, there are differences. Urban vs rural. Minnesota vs Florida.

There are interesting implications in how you make those choices. ie: "Well, however I speak is correct" will get you elitism accusations I'm sure.

We can go down a very deep rabbit hole with this question, because you're absolutely right there isn't just one accent spoken in America.

But for what it's worth the term is defined as the "umbrella accent of American English spoken by a majority of Americans and widely perceived, among Americans, as lacking any distinctly regional, ethnic, or socioeconomic characteristics". You can read about that more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American_English

If you do have the chance to jump into the app and watch some of the videos that our speech coaches, Ron and Eliza, have produced, you may notice they also refer to their own accents as "this accent" as a nod to the fact that ultimately what they are able to teach is the accent they are themselves demonstrating.

Pure GAE/SAE is fairly arch and stilted - I assume you are chilling out on some of the more arcane aspects like liquid Us in "reduce" and "student" and "forehead" as "fahred"? Most dialect coaches default to something looser when teaching an american accent because SAE sounds almost british if you're strictly adhering to it.

If by "liquid U" you mean pronouncing /ju/, then no, GAE pronounces it "redooce" and "stoodent", not "redyooce" and "styoodent." From the article:

> yod-dropping after alveolar consonants (with new pronounced /nu/, not /nju/)

That's interesting - Speak with Distinction, which was treated like a bible of SAE when I was in school, leans on /ju/ for stressed syllables:

https://books.google.com/books?id=hM-GDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT126&lpg=...

not my area of expertise, but I had assumed from the article that SAE and GAE are equivalent, but maybe not?

Hey guys, for the record, in our description we used "Standard American accent" as a bit of a catch-all term, not quite in the most technical manner.

One of our dialect coaches, Ron Carlos, slacked me the following blurb: The accent taught in American theater schools (which we're calling SAE here, most would call it Mid-Atlantic) is an accent that was popular in Hollywood in the 40s. Many schools have modified it to sound more modern. And we definitely don’t use that accent in BoldVoice. Ours is more modern: for example, can’t and Cod will have two separate vowel sounds, and Tune and toon will sound the same.

Okay, that's helpful, thanks for going right to the source - yes, that's what I learned in theater school (referred to as SAE), and found that it was useless for everything except Shakespeare and poetry. I thought it pretty unlikely that was what you were going to teach non-native english speakers.

I'm guessing that the meaning of "General American English" has drifted over the years - it seems like Speak With Distinction is from 1942, when those sorts of pronunciations were common, and it would have been appropriate to teach that to non-native speakers. Now the accent is a little bit different, just like how "business casual" now includes certain types of jeans.

This looks interesting and as a non-native English speaker, I'd be open to pay for it if it fulfills it promises.

However, the fact that it is a mobile app only is quite annoying. Why can't I just use this on my laptop? Some of us are actually phone-less :)

Pretty cool product out there ! I come from the Conversational AI background ! Can imagine the hard work you've done to get this right on the accuracy ! Looking forward to testing it out ! Wishing all the best !

Thanks, appreciate it! If you have any feedback or thoughts to the pronunciation analysis feel free to send them to founders@boldvoice.com!

Having an accent increased my chances of success in US. I had an Italian strong accent. When my English got better, people thought I was from Mexico. People were not as fascinated to the accent and lost some interest. I think the problem is not necessarily the accent, but how open people in front of you are to new accents and how confident you are with yourself being a foreigner. I'm interested on how the product will develop!

Thanks for sharing your story! My cofounder Anada and I can both relate, as we're both immigrants to the US as well.

Something we want to stress with this product is that we want BoldVoice to live up to it's name -- helping non native English speakers feel bolder and more comfortable when speaking English and be more clearly understood.

This is a native english speaker: https://youtu.be/pit0OkNp7s8

We are a diverse bunch

Wow! That was amazing, I couldn't understand more than a few words of the first speaker. The others were much more intelligible, but it required a lot of attention (which is also interesting, how much of listening is really passive). I feel for any non-native English speakers used to a different accent trying to understand that.

My wife moved from Finland, and ended up working in A&E in Dundee. She had a rough time at first understanding some of the heavier Scottish accents.

I have tested her now, on Rab C Nesbitt, and she passes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qeWbC7XtO0

Congrats on the launch! Worked on something similar, so rooting for ya. Using Hollywood accent coaches is a great approach, but I'd also look into identifying speech therapists that specialize with helping adults in target regions to 1) get more information for your models and 2) point out which problems can't be corrected in older adults, so you focus on those that can.

I _really_ wish this existed for other languages and other English accents. I'd love to use it for that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NriDTxseog

BoldVoice, I hope you get Amy Walker on as a consultant...!

Thanks for sharing!

I'm a native English speaker, but I'd love something like this for French, Spanish, or Mandarin! Any good products you're aware of?

Loving what you’re doing here - excited to show this to my non-native speaker SO and give the AI assessments a test drive.

Thanks! Which language is your SO's native language?

Feel free to send any good (or bad) feedback to founders@boldvoice.com!

Japanese :) first gotta pitch her on it though lol.

We're excited to help and be on standby :) Feel free to mention that BoldVoice is made by non-native English speakers for non-native English speakers.

Our dialect coach Eliza Simpson also recorded an introductory video that lays out the values & mission very well (2:58 mins): https://vimeo.com/572809215

When you succeed I hope you expand to other English accents, e.g. Australia, NZ, England…

I disagree fundamentally with the premise here. An accent is simply someone applying the rules of pronunciation from one language to another. No accent is right or wrong but your product seems to imply that North American accents are desirable or correct while accents rooted in non-english languages are less desirable.

Instead of trying to "acquire an accent" why not focus on clarity of speech and pronunciation? If someone is unable to understand an accent, it is more often a case of that person not being exposed to differences in pronunciation which speaks more to the listener's lack of exposure than something wrong with the speaker.

Many regional accents from the UK are difficult to understand because they use non standard grammar, sentence structure and place stress and intonation differently.

I agree with the focus of most existing language learning - vocabulary and grammar are the foundation. Intonation and pronunciation are important. An accent is just top dressing - it is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of clear communication. The goal should be clear communication, not a north american accent.

This hasn't been my experience. I worked with a man years ago that was relatively fluent in English, but whose thick accent made understanding him somewhat difficult. Listening intently was required to understand him and he would often need to repeat himself, even though he was using the correct words and grammar. It's something he ran into pretty often at the time and he worked to improve it. Something like this app may have helped him. Slight accents may be "just top dressing," but this is most definitely not always the case.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I invite you to watch one of our dialect coaches, Ron Carlos, share a bit about both the values and process that he brings to the table at BoldVoice (1:43 mins) - https://vimeo.com/572809188

As our name implies, we want to help non-native English speakers feel bolder and more confident when speaking English. To feel more confident, indeed, one may need to more deeply learn the rules of English grammar, and more varied vocabulary.

However, in the pursuit of more confident and clear speech, one may also want to learn how to adapt their pronunciation, how they place stress, how they use intonation and they way they use pacing and rhythm. All of these are the component parts of an accent.

A note from Ron (who just Slacked me while I was writing this): Clarity of speech and pronunciation are big parts of an accent. You can’t change those without changing an accent. We are dialect coaches. We love peoples’ native accents, which is why we use sounds and samples from each speaker’s familiar language to teach sounds in American English. We want to empower our users to be able to control their speech so they can choose when sound more American in situations where it may benefit them. We truly hope that one day accents won’t matter, but until then, we have folks who feel embarrassed about their accent which keeps them from showing up with their full selves. We’re here to help those folks feel more confident with their speech.

You have not addressed the fundamental point of my comment - why are you selling a north american accent in particular?

Clear speech is not predicated on acquiring a certain accent and i feel you are feeding into the stereotype of an accent determining the quality of the speaker, not the content of speech.

Edit - you ignore the fact that a native speaker of English may have an accent that is not North American. Think about millions in the Indian subcontinent or Africa. Are you not being subtly racist in implying that only accents from North America are desirable? Personally, i find many African accents incredibly clear and easy to understand.

This is the reason for my opposition to "accent coaches" - they focus on the wrong thing - the accent. To anyone with half a brain, D Trump sounds incredibly stupid despite his north American accent.

As a fellow immigrant working in the US and as someone working with non native speakers from other regions in the world, I can assure you this is not about racism. It is about team cohesion, clarity, getting things done in an international team. People have to spend extra brain cycles just to tune in to how you say things, before they can focus on what you actually say. This is especially true at the beginning of working with someone who's accent you have never heard. There is a big difference in accents between someone from India, France, Ukraine. While there is nothing wrong with that, it has value for international teams to mitigate this difference and settle on a common standard.

I like your point about cohesion. I'm not an immigrant here so, perhaps obviously, I agree. I have worked on teams and accents of those I have to collaborate with is a big factor in determining overall "friction". Often if the accent is too strong, it really makes the interaction dreadful because I (and others) want to understand you but it's difficult and embarrassing having to ask "what?" three times per sentence.

I don't think you need any better example than support call centers. How many people routinely avoid calling for support or simply loathe the idea of doing so because they're like to get someone with a heavy Indian, Filipino, etc. accent that leads to the scenario I mentioned above ("whats?")? When it comes down to it, it has a real cost in many ways.

Many people learning foreign languages have a goal of sounding like a native speaker from a particular area. There is nothing wrong with that.

Sorry for veering offtopic, but can you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've unfortunately been doing it a lot, in many threads. It degrades discussion and, as https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html explains, we're trying for something different than that here. Note this one, for example: "Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine."

The main thing that would fix this is if you edit the swipes out of your comments, e.g. commenting on how bad the other person's point is, how they are nitpicking, how they are failing to argue properly. If you simply make your substantive points directly, without negative 'you' statements, your comments will be much better.

Also, please omit flamebait like the bit at the end of your comment here. It breaks the site guidelines too, and leads nowhere good.

The NA English accent is considered the most clear and easy to understand. This is not a controversial opinion and is held by virtually all non-native English speakers around the world.

Frankly there are billions of people who would kill to speak English like a native American. It’s about economics, not identity politics.

>The NA English accent is considered the most clear and easy to understand.

Do you have any evidence of this? I would believe that it depends strongly on the language(s) you already know. Perhaps you are confusing prevalence with clarity. North America has tremendous soft power - more so than any other part of the world and their accents are ubiquitous.

Clarity is not necessarily function of the accent.

As a French, the Amerian accent is usually the easiest to understand. That's also what most people around me think, though they also think of the British accent as more "fancy". This is for the "American you hear on TV" accent. which is also the one that I hear the most on Youtube or sites like that.

You're right about clarity not being a function of accent, at least not totally. There are some people that speak terrible English with a French accent, and others that speak clear and easy to understand English with a French accent. The same applies to pretty much every accent. I also agree with you on the soft power, however part of the soft power will mean that people are more used to the NA accent.

As a final point, I've heard multiple times that sometimes people that speak English as a second language can understand each other really well while Americans have a really hard time understanding them. If that's a real phenomenon, then having a non-American accent could be detrimental if you want to work in the USA.

American media (movies, news, etc.) is universal. People all around the world watch American shows and movies and are accustomed to the accent. This output dwarfs any other versions of English. So, to begin with, people are just more familiar with American English.

Adding to that, I’m not confusing prevalence with clarity. The standard American accent is clearer and easier to understand than most other variants, including American subcultural accents like the Boston, Texan, or Southern accents.

So you have no evidence of your claim.

>, I’m not confusing prevalence with clarity

...but you do that right here:

>American media (movies, news, etc.) is universal. People all around the world watch American shows and movies and are accustomed to the accent.

So it is prevalence and not clarity.

No, it is both, as I just said.

It is widespread common knowledge that the American accent is the easiest to understand. If you don’t agree with this, I’m sorry but you are not speaking from experience.

Can you identify any intrinsic property of General American other than media, business and language school familiarity that makes it particularly intelligible? Its pronunciation is as divorced from phonetics as most English dialects, it elides some consonants and vowel clusters that are distinct in most other English variants and it tends to be spoken more rapidly than some English dialects.

And yes, I have considerable experience of speaking English abroad, and whether I think the listener will understand me better if I exaggerate my British diction, adopt more General American-sounding syllables, pick up quirks of pronunciation and phrasing used in the local ESL lingua franca or pronounce a particular problem word as it is written is entirely situational, and generally based on what the person I'm speaking to is most exposed to.

> It is widespread common knowledge that the American accent is the easiest to understand.

I didn't know that this was established. I'd be curious to see a source for this — has it been studied?

American English is easier to understand because it's less distinctive, it has lost any character, which is common for linguæ francæ.

So I don't think it's solely about American soft power, although that will undoubtedly play a part.

> Frankly there are billions of people who would kill to speak English like a native American

Probably, at least in poor and undeveloped countries. But a lot of people would kill even more to speak with a posh British Accent, it's really hard to sound sophisticated when speaking American English.

> An accent is simply someone applying the rules of pronunciation from one language to another.

Exactly, and that is the wrong way to speak the "another" language. The ears of native speakers are tuned to a certain pronunciation, any departures from that will be harder to understand, it will be a distraction.

You might not like it, but that's how it is.

> Many regional accents from the UK are difficult to understand because they use non standard grammar, sentence structure and place stress and intonation differently.

True. It's also true that many regional or working class accents in the UK will impair your job prospects in the UK. It's probably better to come with a Swiss or Norwegian accent than a Geordie one, when applying for a job at Goldman.

Unfortunately some people do think differently of you based on your accent, subconsciously or consciously

Not to stir the pot but: Wasn’t this controversially brought up as a signal among startup founders by PG?

Disagree with you here. For some people, accents can be a big personal issue. This helps solve that.

> The goal should be clear communication, not a north american accent.

I agree with this 100% - mutual understanding is the basis of communication. Nevertheless, I don't think this the problem that BoldVoice is trying to solve here. While I'd love all my audiobooks to be read with a Glaswegian accent, North American one is what most people are internationally most familiar with. As a non-native speaker, being able to speak fluently with an accent that is highly desirable (at least within this century) carries not only practical utility but also social status if you consider the fact that this is someone's second (or nth) language.

"The goal should be clear communication, not a north american accent"

Yes but how do you teach clear communication without focussing on accent ? You ultimately have to pick a way to speak and accents define that way.

Can you please do the Kiwi accent instead?

Thanks for the suggestion! We'd love to explore how we can best create curriculums for other accents of English, such as British, Kiwi, Aussie, etc. But, as you can imagine, something like this takes a lot of time & planning, so we're being careful not to over extend ourselves.

Interestingly enough, if you do engage with the content in BoldVoice, you will learn the physical skills that help you understand how different sounds are made and how to use your articulators. Once you are fairly confident in these new skills, you may even be able to apply them to quickly learning all kinds of new accents.

Amazing product!