The Mach-E gives the common Norwegians access to the famed American Comfort Car (c/tm) without having to break the bank, as power prices are relatively low in Norway and gas prices are very high.
I feel like when most people think of American Cars they think of big GM's, etc and at least in the UK they are not really are really famed for comfort, instead they were always famed for handling badly and having terrible MPG. Now don't get me wrong, I know the US has some great cars, but I think the markets are very different and the ones that have been available to us have been awful, expensive, or both.
My point is, I don't think people are buying the Mach-E cause its an opportunity to try the 'famed American Comfort Car' but more because its a good option for an electric car, and that's what a lot of people in Europe want when buying brand new cars now.
I think a lot of people are missing what you mean by the above. Ford has been in Britain and Ireland for a century. Multiple generations have driven Fords and have worked at the Dagenham plant and at the former Cork plant, built aircraft engines during WW2 there. Ford's raises were used to determine raises for other industries (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent#Ford_nego...>); that's how much Ford was seen as a "native" company. The 2010 film Made in Dagenham (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Dagenham>), about a notable strike in British labor history, is called that because it occurred at the Ford plant.
When I lived in the UK in the 90s I was surprised to see "Ford Granada" meant a modest four-door passenger car not unlike a Camry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Granada_(Europe)#/media/F...) compared to the hulking, chrome-fronted US beast I drove in high school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Granada_(North_America)#/...)
Are you sure that's not old info? I know there used to be major differences (which was obvious if you watched World Rally back in the day, since you couldn't get one of those Ford Focus models in the US), but I had heard they were consolidating some, so looked it up. According to Wikipedia[1], about a decade ago Ford started consolidating it's US and UK models, and now I think maybe beyond a couple variations only being available in one are, they are mostly the same. (It also notes they closed 3 of their factories in Europe). For the Focus specifically, they unified the models in 2011[2].
That said, even if Ford is or was building European specific versions in Europe, I wouldn't consider that any more a UK car company and less a US car company that I would consider Honda and Toyota any less Japanese car companies and more US even through they have many plants in the US and significant portions of their cars and materials are built here to get around import tariffs. They have significant portions of their companies housed here, and US divisions doing R&D in some cases, but those are definitely Japanese companies.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_of_Europe#2011%E2%80%93pr...
2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus#Third_generation_(C...
Yes, as in 2011 when they unified their UK and US markets. That is, a decade ago. My understanding is that at that point you could get the same models in both areas, for the most part (this is when the US finally gor access to the sport models of the Focus, like the RS). The Mondeo came over earlier, in 2006 (as the Fusion).
The Ford Fusion (Mondeo in the UK, but functionally identical from what I can tell) outsold the Mustang 2:1 in the US in 2019 and 2020. Ford does sell more SUVs and trucks than cars, and also stopped selling many cars in the US 2020 (and some more, including the Fusion), but even the Ford Fiesta sold similar numbers (if still less) than the Mustang.
> Ford obviously aspired to unify across the two markets, but the differences between them are so large it doesn’t seem practical for most of their range.
Before everything started changing in 2020 (Ford is pulling out of the car market in the US except for select models), what models were UK specific? That is, not just a name difference?
Prior to 2011 there seemed to be major differences, and after 2019 there are obviously major differences, but it feels like people here are ignoring almost a decade of history just so they can justify the old perceptions they had which weren't accurate during that time.
The Puma is Europe-specific and was launched in 2019.
I don't understand the case you're making, as you say Ford is killing off in the US almost all the vehicles that make up their existing market share in Europe. The point I was trying to make is the company is fundamentally split because of the different nature of the markets. FCA had the same issue.
I just thought it was worth pointing out that the perception didn't seem to match reality on those points, and for an extended period of time, as they seemed to more closely describe the pre-2011 period.
That said, I've looked into this more, and there was some split during that period, from what I can see, just not in the direction from Europe to the US, and not in any of the models people are bringing up like that. The Mustang wasn't offered in the UK as a right hand drive model until 2015, and I'm not sure the Taurus ever was. I still think people's perception of this is slightly doscordant with the reality for a large chunk of time that's being ignored, but I'll readily admit at this point that it wasn't quite as unified as I was presenting.
The dominant purchasing model in the US has always been to go to a dealership and choose something that is on the lot. Car companies give the dealership an "allocation" and they place orders with the car company for the cars that will go to their lot - within the confines of that allocation. Ford might tell them that if they want 50 Mustangs they also have to take 7 Fiestas. And generally, that's the only way that Fiestas will end up on the lot - because the dealership doesn't want anything but the most popular vehicle. So, does anyone really know what Americans will buy? I don't think they do.
Now Covid and supply shortages have happened. Dealers have nothing on the lot; they are selling everything while it is inbound to the dealer. Ford, at least, is currently offering a $1000 discount on many vehicles if you place an order and wait - like people buy cars in Europe.
So maybe this is going to be permanent. Manufacturers will like this better. I think dealers like it too. But if it sticks, we will likely see changes. More color choices, more combinations of options. And then, hopefully, more vehicle varieties. Because you've eliminated the need for unwilling dealers to keep some of them on the lot.
By the way, you can get a Ford 2.3T with a 7-speed manual transmission and (traditional) 4 wheel drive in the new Bronco. That would make a sweet combo in a wagon (but with full-time AWD)
I agree with the point about "British Ford”. Capris, Escorts and Sierras are quintessentially British cars, especially the ones with the Cosworth engines.
This might be more correct if you specify the UK has this opinion, because it definitely isn't a generally held opinion elsewhere.
Everyone in the US definitely thinks of Ford as a quintessential American car company. The F-150 is the most popular truck in the US, and used to be the most popular vehicle of any type sold.
The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here.
In contrast, F150 / Trucks / etc. etc. are "real Ford Cars". No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason, despite their popularity in Europe (which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA, and are instead opting for a $20k truck: the Maverick, over continuing their efficient line of sedans)
I'm still upset they cut the Focus/Fiesta ST models. You will have to pry mine from my cold dead fingers :-)
More accurately, sedans from any manufacturer have been in steady decline for years. So only the biggest names are still selling enough to justify continued development. Everyone else is switching to CUVs because that's what customers want today. Can't blame them, typical CUVs now have basically the same fuel efficiency as a sedan but a little more utility and a bit easier to live with (slide in/out without up/down).
People just like the configuration.
(I work at Ford, but in a role that doesn’t give me insight into internal vehicle program strategy.)
Really? I own a 2017 Ford Focus RS in the states and I get a lot of compliments on my car. Most people don't even realize its a focus.
Ford makes good trucks, but not good sedans. That's their reputation. That's where most conversations go. People ask me about maintenance issues and are surprised that I've only had to change the oil, brake pads, and windshield wipers and tires. People seem to think that Ford sedans fall apart if you look at them funny.
I think recently it's been a bit of a chicken and the egg problem for ford and sedans, they don't sell enough volume to justify redesigns and they aren't redesigned so they're not (at least perceived as) terribly competitive.
"Perhaps the most illuminating data comes from NHTSA fatality rates per million vehicles for 1975 and 1976. In the published chart, the Pinto is responsible for 298 deaths per million cars in 1975, making it on par with the Chevrolet Vega (288) and Datsun 510 (294), but considerably safer than the Datsun 1200/210 (392), the Toyota Corolla (333) and the VW Beetle (378). In 1976, the Pinto’s 322 deaths per million cars was slightly higher than the Chevrolet Vega (310) and AMC Gremlin (315), but better than the Datsun 510 (340), the Datsun 1200/210 (418) and the VW Beetle (370)."[2]
[1]https://www.freep.com/in-depth/money/cars/ford/2019/12/05/fo...
[2]https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2017/10/17/misunderstood-ca... citing [3]http://www.perishablepundit.com/docs/The_Myth_of_the_Ford_Pi...
From my personal observation: poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts. Driving is dangerous in America and you have to have a car to participate economically in most of the country. Also, the used market here is huge and not a lot of 90s/2000s Ford sedans made it this far.
Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct.
Ford Focus beat the pants off of Honda Fit, roughly in the same category of weight (though the Honda Fit is quite a bit cheaper MSRP, the Ford Focus was frequently on sale at quite low prices).
But people _believe_ the Honda Fit has superior maintenance and safety ratings. So that's that. Reputation is more important than facts.
In the US, the Focus isn't held in high regard. It's a lower class commuter car or a middle class teenager starter car. They have poor quality finishes and cosmetically look like ass after a year or two.
That's generally how most American cars are, they look all shiny and new the first year but the finish is superficial and wears off quickly. This is especially true of vehicles that win JD Power's "Highest in initial quality" awards.
That said, the internet fanboy talking points you're parroting are exactly why your first sentence is spot on. The new car market is chock full of feedback loops that make perception more important than strict "by the numbers" reality.
> The new car market is chock full of feedback loops that make perception more important than strict "by the numbers" reality.
I can only assume you put "by the numbers" in quotes because you're referring to something other than actual numbers and statistics.
When you look at something like the Consumer Reports Reliability Index for the last 30 years you will find the 3 most unreliable brands are the big 3 US automakers.
If you look at CR's used cars to avoid list, guess who dominates? The same 3.
Most people don't have access to CR but there are plenty of sites that make their info available.
This one is a little dated but it does a good job showing historical data: http://autooninfo.net/
Fun fact: I just got back from Norway, and saw a Mach-E a week ago. Seen as it was apparently just released there "weeks ago", it must have been one of the first in the country.
I just checked the price of a MUSTANG 5.0 V8 GT, and the price is almost exactly double in Norway from what it is where I live in Mexico.
The small engine Mustangs have always been derided as non-Mustangs. It shouldn't be surprising that, as coupes become less mainstream, the share of the smaller engine declines. The bulk of Mustang buyers anymore are old men.
Plus, there's the issue that, speccing a ecoboost Mustang with some performance goodies puts it within spitting distance of a 5.0. The Ecoboost HPP is like $32k and the "performance" upgrades for systems like the brakes are essentially base GT take-offs. This makes the $37k GT a really good deal in comparison.
Factoring in depreciation, the GT is a better deal. Fuel costs are marginal since you can run the GT on 87 with almost no power loss while the Eco is a dog without 93 octane. And, for me at least, the GT is cheaper to insure (by like $3) than an Eco. Add in low-interest, long-term loans and the monthly cost difference is minimal as well.
Have you driven a Tesla lately? My Model 3 dual motor drives and handles like a sports car, not like a modest family sedan that handles well in the snow.
The Mustang badge communicates that the Mach E has serious performance characteristics. When I test drove the electric Focus, it also had quite zippy acceleration, but everyone just assumed it was a dog-slow compliance car.
The closest thing to a “sporty” driving experience is probably the Taycan but whilst you can feel some Porsche in it, it doesn’t drive like a traditional Porsche either, it doesn’t even drive like the Panamera which is the closest ICE Porsche to the Taycan in terms of size and weight.
Tesla has still quite a bit to go with suspension, handling, steering and other driving characteristics before it can deliver a sports car driving experience, yet alone a Porchse or an BMW M series/Alpina.
The Mach-E also delivers nothing in terms of driving experience that is even remotely comparable to a Mustang, even given how wimpy many of the Mustang models have been lately.
People who are interested in owning a muscle car in Europe are a very select group of people and they're probably highly uninterested in the Mach-E.
The one time I sat in Mustang it definitely wasn't an "American Comfort Car." It was so snug I felt like I was wearing the car.