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Comment by marliechiller | Hacker News Reader

Im a vegan but Ive noticed that most other vegans are not really looking forward to lab grown meat. I on the other hand am optimistic and hopeful. I still miss the taste, texture and nutritional benefits of meat and this will hopefully tick those boxes (with plenty of other bonuses as well). The biggest challenge it seems to me though, is once price parity is achieved, how do you convince meat eaters to choose this chicken nugget over the perceived 'healthier' flesh of a dead chicken. That to me, will be the watershed moment. Perhaps its just a case of removing subsidies on real meat or getting the price point of cultured meat to be even less than real meat so people dont have to make the decision in the first place - their wallets will make it for them

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I'm hoping that we go beyond taste and nutritional parity.

Instead of matching flavor, in theory we can make it even better. For steak, that may be fattier. For chicken, it could be way more flavorful.

And in terms or health. It could be the healthiest meat you could eat, not only for the environment but for the consumer. Either higher protein or more essential nutrients. No reason to just try and mimic once they have achieved a matching taste/cost.

>> Either higher protein or more essential nutrients.

So it turns out that Glycine is an important amino acid. It's primarily (but not only) used to build connective tissues. Turns out a great source of it is eating connective tissue, so get bone-in wings and eat those things clean. This is just one thing you probably won't get from lab-grown meat. OTOH most people avoid eating the icky parts anyway.

> Perhaps its just a case of removing subsidies on real meat

Or simply deciding as a society that the horrific torture the modern meat industry engages in is unconscionable. As with cars, once you remove the "necessity"[1] of a consumer choice, the argument for subsidizing it or compromising other values to expand availability disappears. People who prefer real meat over hypothetically indistinguishable lab-grown meat can pay full-price for the environmental and ethical costs; this seems like it'll be more than enough to shift the market.

[1] This is taking for granted the position that abstaining from meat is unviable. I don't see this view changing much.

> how do you convince meat eaters to choose this chicken nugget over the perceived 'healthier' flesh of a dead chicken.

Meat eaters aren't as picky eaters as vegans, putting meat in front of them is all the convincing they need. I eat McNuggets fully knowing they are just ground up baby chicks, beak and all, I don't care I eat animals because they taste good. I would happily eat dog if it tasted like chicken, Ill happily eat meat from a lab I don't care about my food being "organic".

The real question for me is whether this "meat" will result in less carbon emission, which seems highly unlikely. Legumes will probably remain the cheapest and most ethical source for proteins for a long time and there are lentil and bean dishes that are a lot tastier than most of the ways people eat chicken (in my opinion as someone who still eats chicken)

> The biggest challenge it seems to me though, is once price parity is achieved, how do you convince meat eaters to choose this chicken nugget over the perceived 'healthier' flesh of a dead chicken.

By pushing beyond price parity. If it tastes the same, actually has the same composition, and costs less, people will buy it, and economies of scale will make real meat a lot less attractive very quickly.

People will also stop having an (easy) choice because McDonalds will almost certainly jump on the wagon train and advertise that their chicken nuggets are now "cruelty free" or whatever marketing term they use to mask the fact that they did it because it's cheaper.

What I'm not going to do, as a meat-eater, is pay 5x as much for the privilege of eating a shittier burger, that will also kill me unless I take vitamin supplements on top.

I'm vegan, and I'm on board with lab-grown meat. Or at least, I don't have any ethical issues with it, provided the energy costs are not insane.

That said...after six years of being vegan and maybe another six (I think?) as vegetarian before that, at this point I've found plenty of other dishes that don't involve meat. I really don't crave meat, and I really don't feel like it's missing in the dishes I make. So while I'm on board with lab-grown meat, and will try it when it's available, I'm really not the target market. I agree with you that the big question is how appealing it will be to meat-eaters. But I presume they've done their market research on that.

> I still miss the taste, texture and nutritional benefits of meat and this will hopefully tick those boxes

To vegans I have to say "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

You can have all those things with actual chicken, you just have to spend more or eat it less frequently to mitigate the harmful effects of factory farming. Really, adding yourselves to that customer base may well result in a net improvement in animal welfare and food safety.

And don't forget that the more accurate you want the taste and texture, the more of the actual chicken you have to grow in the dish, and at that point, is there really a big ethical benefit?

Once price parity is remotely close, I believe a lot of people (myself included) will recognize all the auxiliary benefits and opt for cultured meat. Once price parity is achieved and succeeded, there'll be no looking back.

most other vegans are not really looking forward to lab grown meat

I've had the same experience. Not vegan myself, but eat mostly vegetarian for health reasons (continue to eat fish and dairy, and a burger every blue moon).

Vegetarian/vegan cooking (whether or not you add dairy and eggs to the mix) can be quite tasty, hearty, and fulfilling on it's own.

I personally hope the "lab meat" stuff is just a stop-gap to get western eaters used to a reduced- or no-meat diet. But, if lab meat ends up economical and environmentally friendly, I'll be happy.

>Im a vegan but Ive noticed that most other vegans are not really looking forward to lab grown meat.

I would hope that most vegans would be looking forward to a massive reduction in animal cruelty. I despise factory farming, but I thrive best on a high protein diet. The vast majority of vegan protein sources come with too much carb, fat or both. There is simply no vegan alternative that compares with lean meat.

I'm omnivorous, but I'm investing in this kind of companies. From my perspective this is a future with less suffering and more sustainability. Those things are important drivers of my mental health, and also eating less antibiotics sounds like a good idea.

I think it's telling that not even vegans want it.

You wouldn't get sex advice from a nun, so why eat laboratory meat from a vegan?

Why would current-day vegans want it? Most of the vegans I know gag at the idea of eating meat.

The real target market is current-day meat-eaters who wish, for ethical or environmental reasons, that they ate less meat.

Or my position: that the industrial-scale torture of factory farms is a stain on humanity, but most people's consciences are too stunted to even engage with moral questions if it means changing their own behavior. In the presence of indistinguishable lab-grown meat, this argument against more ethical practices evaporates.

Why would regular people want it? We already have real meat. Those who don't want it can stick to plants. It's risky to eat laboratory things without knowing the centuries long impact on people.

> industrial-scale torture of factory farms

So melodramatic. You can raise your own animals.

> but most people's consciences are too stunted

No, some people are so weak minded that they attribute human characteristics to animals to the point of wincing at the idea of a balanced omnivorous diet.

You only find this permanent state of infantilization in first world countries. Even Buddhists in Tibet are perfectly happy to eat meat.

I can submit a patch to an open-source project and everybody benefits ; but if I raise my own animals, the industrial-scale torture continues anyway. How many people need to raise their own animals before the abuse ends? It's not "weak-minded" or even melodramatic to conclude that an animal suffers when it is beaten.

> Even Buddhists in Tibet are perfectly happy to eat meat.

It is generally true that some adherents of religion X regularly do non-X things, in Tibet and elsewhere.

If the carbon footprint is less, I can see a lot of Millenials and Gen-Z-ers wanting to. We are, I believe, "regular people" as much as you are.

long as its truly indistinguishable price will win out. don't worry about it too much.

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