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Comment by slim | Hacker News Reader

Hey Ahmed I live in Tunisia too. You seem to be young enough to not remember how it was to live under the dictatorship 10 years ago. I'm a political activist from the Pirate Party, and I've been arrested twice under the dictatorship and I'm not as worried as you are. Send me an email if you want to chat. I'm slim@pirate.tn

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[Some time later] I'm glad you contacted me Ahmed. Lesson #1: Don't trust random people on the internet. The secret police are everywhere. Now come with me down to the police station so we can get you booked and interrogated.

Slim Amamou is not random. Maybe not quite famous but he is a bit known in Tunisia.

And there is no secret police in Tunisia for now. The current plot is quite amateurish but given history (Cuba/Fidel) anything is possible.

I didn't mean to make equivocations to any modern or historically violent regimes, though perhaps I was too flippant in using the term "secret police". I'm well aware that Tunisia (now and even years ago) has a much stronger civil society than most if not all of the Arab world, and in many respects comparable to Europe. It's no coincidence that it was the first (and arguably only) country to transition to democracy during the Arab Spring.

My point was just that if you're worried about the consequences of your country slipping back into authoritarianism, obviously you'll want to 1) be more prudent about what you say, and 2) be more rigorous in practicing trust & verify--both regarding the trustworthiness of the person purporting to speak with you, and that they're actually that person, much like if a bank or journalist contacted me. (I always try to verify both, with varying degrees of rigor depending on consequences. And I'll never provide personal information, confidential or otherwise, over an incoming phone call; I always ask for a callback number that I can verify.)

Suffice it to say, even in robust democracies you can be interrogated by police for making innocuous statements online. A couple Muslim friends experienced exactly that (repeatedly) in the aftermath of 9/11. That was wrong and harmful, but there was never any threat or perceived threat of physical harm. I didn't mean to denigrate Tunisia by suggesting it would be so quick to descend into a thoroughly repressive and violent dictatorship. The world is much more complex than as portrayed in Hollywood and pulp history.

To the extent my comment made a caricature of Tunisia, I apologize.

> And there is no secret police in Tunisia for now.

If you knew about them they wouldn’t be secret now would they?

The secret police is basically a non-legal entity operating illegally to do stuff for the dictator/authoritarian regime.

:) While this was good advice under the dictatorship, it is not anymore. He specifically said he's not concerned about his physical safety. Tunisia is not like saudi arabia or syria anymore. It's as safe as any western country. And he can easily check me out, I'm on HN since 2007.

But there is no way to confirm if this account had been compromised is there?

You need to rely on the fact that I am able to maintain the security of my public accounts and that if one of my accounts was compromised I would have detected it and published a notice on another channel (twitter for example)

That's where Keybase works better IMO.

> It's as safe as any western country.

Citation needed.

Tunisia's life expectancy is 76.7 years. The United States's is 78.7 years. A difference of two years compared to the most wealthy nation on the planet is minor.

In fact, your average person in Tunisia is likely to outlast your average person in many US States:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/life_expectancy/li...

And in France it's 82.7 years, the wealth of the US doesn't directly translate to good life expectancy, especially when you've got so many inequalities. The highest life expectancy is at 85 years in Japan. The average life exepctancy in the world in 72.6 years, 79 in Europe, 82.5 in Western Europe. With all due respect to Tunisia, it's better than average but still lower than "any western country".

The wealth of the US comes from a few people being extraordinarily wealthy.

The p20 of wealth isn't great in the US

> And in France it's 82.7 years

It depends on your occupation (and probably on other factors too).

https://www.niussp.org/education-work-economy/france-male-ma...

Yes, that's how averages work.

Countries also count deaths differently. Some will count a premature baby at 26 weeks that dies as a death (the US), while others just say “it was never viable” so not a death.

Don’t need to average very many “zeros” to bring down an average.

That sounds wrong. There’s a whole range of life expectancy metrics that are calculated carefully as they constitute a fundamental metric about a population in everything from the insurance industry to the health industry. Life expectancy metrics are heavily used for geographic and historic comparison as they have standard and specific definition. The starting age is always specified - e.g. life expectancy at 18 or 60 or whatever. When the age is not specified, the implied age is zero or “life expectancy at birth”. I’ve never heard of “life expectancy at conception” nor can think that one country would calculate it but use the value for “life expectancy at birth”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality

There is huge variability in how deaths are reported for newborns.

“Many countries, however, including certain European states (e.g. France) and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and increases their rates of perinatal mortality.[111] In the Czech Republic and Bulgaria, for instance, requirements for live birth are even higher.”

Variances in how countries calculate IMR don't affect the calculation of life expectancy at birth which is a standardised measure - see https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006DefinitionsAndMetadata...

You link shows a standard way to calculate infant mortality if the baby is born alive. That’s my point, no every country counts those the same.

Read the “Methods of estimation” section where the standardization process is described. This would be a lot simpler is you could simply provide a reference to support the claim that the life expectancy at birth metric in the USA is calculated differently to that in other countries. Your claim seems to based on differences in calculation a different metric, infant mortality rate.

This is either erroneous thinking or intentionally misleading. Conflating "outlasting" with "safe" is problem number 1. Problem number two is they said "any western country" and you picked one pretty far down the list. Many western countries have a life expectancy well into the 80's so your citation only works against their argument.

it's clear that OP meant that there are no major differences in safety between Tunisia and a random western country. Meaning you don't have to worry about getting robbed or whatever more than you would in say, England. People don't speak with exactitude, it would be weird.

You do not want to use the US as your role model.

We're not talking averages here though are we? Generally dictatorships are *fine* if you don't get political.

Thank you for pointing this out.

The bad thing about Dictatorships is not the lack of freedom, it's the balancing act of resources and freedom. Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them.

However, a lack of resources in Democracy or dictatorship will 100% result in civil unrest.

Which is interesting because people always adapt to whatever situation they are in. I recall this lady being interviewed on Al Jezeera near the bombardment zone in the Gaza strip a few months ago. She was frustrated about little things like kids not going to school, a bus route being destroyed and what not. Nowhere in her statement did she mention that she and her family just had missles landing a few hundred meters away in the dead of night.

Humans are interesting.

"Wealthy dictatorships really are as chill as any rich democracy as long as you don't start poking the leadership with political ideas that don't benefit them."

Unless of course you are in the way of some of the powerclique and they decide to take over your buisness or land without compensation.

Or the spoiled son the of the dictator (or the dictator himself) wants to bang your daughter or your wife. And maybe kills her while doing so. And anyone witnessing or complaining. That means officially also in a dictatorship no one does that. People just go missing or have accidents. Or found guilty of some other "crime".

Exaggerating? Well, I just read a book about Trujillo, the former dictator of the dominican republic, it is quite interesting. But he did not invented power abuse. Anywhere where there is unchecked power, those things happen.

And to your mind Bolivia is a thriving economic hub to warrant being a weathy dictatorship?

Whatever the case may be, bad apples abound. Thats just human nature. Just because democratic leaders dont do things publicly, I think you should disabuse yourself of the notion that they are incapable of depraved acts of violence. Sexual or otherwise. Amd while they might not inflict such violence on their constituents - people from poorer countries have no such luck.

What's the title of the book?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feast_of_the_Goat

By Mario Vargas Llosa.

I can recommend it, very well written and structured, but note, that it is a work of fiction based on historic events. (and some historic events gets changed)

If your idea of west is US, and think that it should be your target as a society, i think you're better as Tunisia

you can cite me. I live here. And I travelled a lot

Given the number of extra-judicial murders and beatings carried out by United States police, I'm not sure this is the selling point you think it is.

Though popular fodder for the media because they are profitable, killings by cops are extremely rare. I believe there are about 1000 murders-by-cop in the U.S. (a nation of 330,000,000 people) in a year, and in the vast, vast majority it is not at all ambiguous whether or not the cops acted in good faith. Picture someone running around stabbing people: the cops killing that person isn't something most people would find questionable.

you're overestimating Tunisian police, I don't think they ever heard of HN, and the situation is not that grave for them to check random forums

slim is pro-coup and our guy here is obviously against it. it makes the situation a little bit difficult.

This is not funny or clever. It's ghoulish.

This is also a valid warning to not trust immediately. This kind of reaching out is exactly what many other groups do.

It's satirical to hammer home the point to tread carefully with advise from random people on the internet.

It is also a very good point in this situation. Just look at how many informers there were under the Stasi…

It's funny, clever, and ghoulish.

Hey Slim, nice work, "Mass Gmail Phishing in Tunisia" you got them by the balls, but why the same brutal policing everywhere, who trained them thugs? https://advox.globalvoices.org/2010/07/05/mass-gmail-phishin...

French police trained them (Tunisia was a colony of France during WW2)

I'm starting to think that the French police are the worst in the EU at least. And here I was thinking that the Dirty Harry cop in the Dobermann movie was a caricature. Looking at the news of the last few years it seems they really are that deranged.

1. Police answer a domestic case by kicking down the door and shooting the father of the (Asian) family without warning:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/2083188/more-...

2. Riot cops shoot a mother and her children at the outskirts of a Gillets Jaunes demo, one of the kids loses a hand:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/30/french-police-...

3. Police anally rape a young (black) man with an expandable baton during an identity check:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38892302

4. Police assault a (black) musician in his studio, allege "smell of cannabis" emanated from within:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55127815

And all this is happening in a democratic country at the heart of the EU. If the police in Tunisia are taking lessons from the French police, I'd be worried about the safety of anti-regime Tunisians.

Of note, I come from a European country that is ostensibly a democracy and I know well that all the democratic laws in the world are not enough to control a bunch of jumped-up brutes given the authority to beat up their fellow citizens.

Those are terrible things, but in order to understand them in anything approaching a meaningful way you need to have the denominator. How many people are there in France? How many police interactions in a year? Without meaningful denominators to give context it doesn't help to know these things, and I'd argue you should probably avoid knowing them. I think you should avoid knowing them because they are merely attempts to exploit your attention for revenue.

Tunisia never was a colony of France, it was a protectorate. Words have meaning, so please stop spreading disinformation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectorate

"Le protectorat colonial se distingue de la colonie dans la mesure où un territoire colonisé est placé sous l’administration directe de la métropole dont il fait partie intégrante, tandis que le territoire sous protectorat conserve théoriquement une relative autonomie." https://bibliotheque-numerique.diplomatie.gouv.fr/MEAE/fr/pr...

France does not get to invent a new name for colonialism and just get away with it

And Egypt was a "protectorate" and Sudan and Vanuatu were "condominia", let's get real here.

Do not do this.

This what and why?

Who's to say it isn't a possible honeypot?

Best security results in his situation might be to * keep head down * move out of country * trust no one

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