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Comment by Arrath | Hacker News Reader

Sadly the typical response to this tends to be an arms race like "Well I better be the one in the bigger truck, then!"

"Arms race" is very apt. For some reason "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a monstrous truck is a good guy with a monstrous truck" is echoing in my head.

And the real shame is, it's a perfectly rational one. I might be starting a family soon, and I honestly don't know how I'm going to navigate this hazard.

Minivan might be a good compromise, arguably more practical than the truck anyway, unless the truck is for work or other usage that actually justifies the truck-ness of it.

Minivans are exactly what we need to go back to. Problem is, in an arms race like this they may have mass on their side but they don't put passengers high up enough to be safe from a truck, especially a modified one.

Minivans are part of the problem according to this paper

"I find pickup trucks, minivans and SUVs all significantly increase pedestrian fatalities relative to cars. Converting 10% of the vehicle fleet from cars to pickups is estimated to increase the pedestrian fatality rate by .04 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.4% in the median metro). I find that converting 10% of cars to minivans would increase pedestrain deaths by .05 deaths per 100,000 residents (3.9% in the median metro). Converting 10% of cars to SUVs would increase pedestrian deaths by .03 deaths per 100,000, or 2.6% in the median metro. In column 4 I further break out SUVs into Large and Small SUVs."

If I'm reading this right, it's the worst of the 3

Interesting. I wonder if it's a visibility thing, or vehicle geometry, or traits common to the typical minivan driver, or what.

I would expect to find that they are not as dangerous to occupants of other vehicles as trucks and larger, higher-riding SUVs, which is half of what I'm talking about here, but I could absolutely be wrong about that.

Trucks have ground clearance, their bumpers are still at a side-crash-bar level. Minivans also weigh nearly as much as most trucks. Typically more than a light duty truck.

This study and the title of this post obviously state that Large Vehicles == More Pedestrian Deaths. Be it a minivan, Tesla, Truck, or whatever.

Everyone in this thread finger-pointing at their perceived cultural enemies identities is straight up moronic

If I had to hazard a guess, minivans look to have a higher center of gravity than SUVs, so it is easier to lose control. And for whatever reason Porsche/BMW/Mercedes have performance-oriented SUVs with sports-car-like handling and braking, whereas nobody seems to be doing this with minivans, so this may skew the results in favor of SUVs. Why trucks fare better than minivans though, I have no idea..

Part of it is probably cost. The average new pickup truck that is sold in the US costs just over $50K, while the most expensive versions of the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna minivans come in under $50K. The average new truck probably has relatively more electronic safety features at those price points (things like collision avoidance) as well as cameras suited to driving a bigger vehicle that can also tow big things.

A starting point here would be regulations around driver visibility.

The bumper on my stock F250 would hit almost any sedan directly in the door's crash beam. A minivan is a little taller. Lifted trucks are a different story.

I agree that minivans are very useful. There's also cost to consider. When I was looking, the basic minivan was at least $5k more than a basic work truck with extended cab.

It's a legitimately hard choice to base on real world statistics, more due to availability than anything else.

IIHS does present some basic detail for occupants [0] [1], although only as recent as 4 years so statistics can have some time to build. That's okay, it's enough to put some perspective on new cars as well. It's at least a partially objective look at what safety by pickup vs sedan vs minivan vs whatever looks like for the people inside your vehicle.

[0] https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-...

[1] pdf https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/status-report/pdf...

Buy a used 18-wheeler. The mileage is not great but safety comes first right? And you won't even notice pedestrians, as a nice added bonus. Any reference to Mad Max - Fury Road is just coincidence.

“If the government wanted people to drive safely, they’d mandate a spike in the middle of each steering wheel.” – Gordon Tullock

May I invite you to migrate to Western-Europe? You can even do without a car if you want to.

I am actually a UK citizen, and you can bet I've been thinking about this possibility a lot in the last few years.

(Though maybe the UK doesn't really count as "western Europe" anymore?)

Ok, thought it wasn’t as bad with regard to large cars over there as we don’t have those humongous trucks the US have.

Or are you in the US?

I would invite you to The Netherlands but the housing prices and rent are beyond insane… not sure that would work out.

There are plenty of people who get trucks and SUVs because they don't make large cars anymore. I had an 89 Caprice and it was like riding a couch down the highway. Look at a Taurus or Impala today and I barely fit.

Edit: Why downvote? It's all true

I don't necessarily blame the people buying them (though coal rollers and their ilk should definitely be loaded onto a barge and pushed out into the Pacific). The problem is that without sensible regulation, the market has chased these vanity trends and ended up in an insane place where something ridiculous on its face might nonetheless be the most practical (and safe) solution for a lot of people.

The average American male is 5 foot 9 inches. I’m average height and easily fit in sub-compact cars. Yes some people need the extra space, but that’s a minority of drivers.

Average height isn’t the most useful statistic for this. A quarter of men are 6 feet or taller. When you factor in the fact that people aren’t likely to buy cars that their spouse can’t drive comfortably, there are an awful lot of people who just are never going to buy small cars. You could make a smallish car for tall people, but no one does.

The other issue is that modern cars are designed differently because of safety concerns—they have less interior space for the same exterior width. Plus kids have to use car seats until they are much older than they used too. Try putting 2 kids in car seats in a subcompact with a tallish driver with the seat pushed back.

Btw I’m 6’5” and it’s tough to even find an intermediate SUV where my knees fit comfortably.

The WRX (prior gen I think) was actually good for tall people because they're made to be able to wear a helmet in. Unfortunately, if you're also broad your shoulders will be rubbing on your passenger (of they're also average to large), and going to 5th means touching their knee occasionally too.

"Try putting 2 kids in car seats in a subcompact with a tallish driver with the seat pushed back."

Wife has a small SUV and I can't sit in front of the car seat for this reason. I have to hunch over or slouch in the back.

Americans have gotten a lot fatter since the 80s and 90s and new car buyers have gotten a lot older. Getting in and out of a truck or SUV is worlds better for people who are overweight or who's joints have jumped the shark than getting down into a car.

Maybe people would start to take better care of their health if they had to face pulling themselves out of a lower-to-the-ground car several times a day.

SUVs and trucks address the symptom, not the disease.

Considering they know it reduces their lifespan, costs more in healthcare, etc, I doubt getting in and out of a car will motivate them to take better care of themselves.

Getting down or up in to a car shouldn’t matter. In order to get out the exact opposite action has to be performed.

Do you live in a world with spherical cows? The human body isn't that efficient. Getting down into a car if your body is old or packing a lot of weight requires exertion as does getting back out. And the average new car buyer probably has at least one of these or is married to someone who is.

A minority, but not a very small minority. I know plenty of people around my height (a few inches over 6').

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