Comment by darkpine | Hacker News Reader

Comment by darkpine | Hacker News Reader

The fear of having any natural body odor in today's society is incredibly widespread. It's almost impossible to find information on the negative effects of our practices of putting ultra-scented substances on our skin via deodorants and perfumes, in our hair via shampoos, on our clothing via scented detergents, etc. Yet everywhere you look, there are vested corporate interests telling us that we stink, are repulsive in our natural state, and so on. This is why it's so difficult to find people willing to forgo these products, and then to admit it and report on the results. Sure, basic hygiene is important. Shower after working out. Brush your teeth. Comb your hair and rinse your scalp. I use to unquestioningly shampoo my hair every few days until I noticed I had to wash more and more frequently, as it started getting greasy quicker. In 2017 I decided to go cold turkey on using shampoo. The first few months were rough. But over time, my hair and scalp biome has normalized, and rinsing with warm water is enough to remove any grease build-up. My hair is also a lot healthier - less split ends and less dried out than before. Deodorant is a much more difficult beast to escape from. B.O. in the workplace is definitely worse than a greasy looking ponytail. However, with the lockdowns, I've been experimenting with skipping the deodorant. So far I can't say I like the results, but I wonder if it's again the kind of thing that takes a while to normalize. Either my nose will become numb to it, or the bacteria in the skin will calm down after being tampered with for so long. It's a little shocking to think I've been smearing a costly cocktail of chemicals on my pores for more than half my life, and barely even recognize my own scent. Crazy to think that we might be blocking an important subconscious source of information on the people in our lives.

Besides scented substances on our skin, I also cannot stand things like scented candles or scented air fresheners. The scents don't smell natural at all, are generally overpowering, and they occasionally give me headaches. I'd rather have good ventilation.

> This is why it's so difficult to find people willing to forgo these products

Pragmatically, we can't smell ourselves very well, and we tend to think it smells fine when we can. So how would you know we don't need to be insecure?

Our society is also uptight about this such that it's often treated as offensive and transgressive to do a very normal and polite thing (one would think) and point out to a close acquaintance or any friend, that well, they smell, since they probably don't know themselves.

In short, stop wearing so much deodorant and ask someone you can trust "do I smell okay?" (And not your spouse. Because same problem as yourself.) Oh so awkward. But how else will you learn? For myself, I was greatly over-estimating the scale of the miasma. Some clearly are underestimating theirs. Some data points would help us all.

I have experimented with it (with an honest partner to give me exterior feedback) and:

- no shampoo works for me, it has a difficult adaptation period but afterward it feels normal and my hair is healthy (nowadays I use a carefully selected shampoo about once a week)

- no soap also works but felts to weird to keep doing (nowadays I only use soap on sweaty areas, never on my face)

- no deodorant works and does not smell bad as long as your body is clean (nowadays I only use deodorant when I know I will be out and maybe active for too long to garantee that my body will stay clean)

I can only do no deodorant when I'm not eating simple carbs. Otherwise I stink quite badly. Something about simple carbs makes me nasty.

Chemicals, exercise, mood, and diet make a massive difference in body odor.

If I'm drinking, I smell terrible. If I'm taking my ADHD medicine, I smell terrible. If I don't exercise I smell terrible. If I eat only terrible food I smell somewhat bad.

If I abstain from pharmaceuticals and alcohol, exercise regularly and eat fairly well, then I generally don't really have to shower because the body odor smells fine.

But ADHD medication (Ritalin, amphetamine) absolutely make me smell horrid. No one wants to be around that.

This got me curious how modafinil, which I take medicinally for ADHD, is making me stink different.

I was once working on a micro site for some under eye highlighting roll-on, essential titanium dioxide suspended in various petrochemicals and emulsifiers. The premise of the ads was that bags under the eyes make you look old and tired, and I have to say all the weird beauty speak worked and I did start to wonder if I did indeed need their product that fixed a condition of being human that no-one noticed until their ad created this sense of lack in the people viewing it.

There have been some no-soap discussions on HN and I think a user called graeme described something similar, some years ago. I've tried not using shampoo but it was mainly rough and then I gave up (too early?). Anyway, I also wonder about possible benefits in not using detergents for skin biome (including a nicer odour), so soap is for my hands (interfaces with potential pathogens) and greasy stuff. The rest is easily cleaned with water.

There are real toxicological reasons not to use deodorant, especially the rub on variety. It is very easy to go old school, and just wash your armpits (sounds gross when writing it down,) but it is very effective. If your are sweaty in public, just find a sink and wash again. It takes 30 seconds. As with your shampoo experiment, the body becomes much cleaner when it's free to do what is supposed to do.

That works for some people but not others.

I once found myself in Shanghai minus my luggage that had contained my toiletries, including my deodorant - aluminum-free scented antiperspirant deodorant. From my searching (admittedly frustrated by poor Mandarin) no grocery, convenience store, or pharmacy in Shanghai stocks this product that's at every Walgreens and Meijer in the midwestern US. No, the people there don't smell bad at all. Apparently there's some kind of microbiome or skin oil in my pits that they don't have, or some beneficial thing that they do have which I don't.

But within a few hours, I stank profusely. My very patient and gracious host was unable to procure me any deodorant. I washed my pits repeatedly, but it only lasted an hour or less between washings. Later, when working from home, I tried going deodorant-free voluntarily: the transition to aluminum-free varieties was no big deal, the transition to deodorant free was an abject failure. I tried antibacterial soaps, non-antibacterial soaps, no soaps, mosturizers, even shaved my pits...only antiperspirant deodorant stops the stink for me.

Some people do smell human when they're sweaty, some try to mask it with perfumes but it's not necessary. Some don't have much of a perceptible smell at all. I smell repulsive.

It’s a known genetic trait:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCC11

The really fascinating bit about this one is it also changes your earwax. So it's quite easy to tell which gene you have, without a sniff test.

I think going mostly soapless should work for everyone though. At least anecdotally from my experience, because it makes no difference. I'm like you, genetically predisposed to get smelly.

I use shampoo on the hair (every few days only since covid, pre covid every day though) and under the arms. I definitely have and never will use soap on my face for example or arms (unless I've been up to my elbows (literally) in the garden or something and I actually have to get something off.

Since covid I've noticed what was already happening before. When I go to the office I smell more, even with deodorant. It basically fails after lunch and I need to wash and reapply. Having more coffee makes it worse but going coffee less doesn't make it not happen. WFH causes way less stink even without deodorant. Though work days are definitely still worse than weekends or vacations.

I've been through all the different types of commercial deodorants. They usually work very well almost miraculously for a few weeks after which they make me stink even worse than before starting them. I've switched to home made deodorant now and apply it only when I go somewhere it matters.

If ever again you get stuck in a country without deodorants, buy baking soda. It's an extremely potent deodorant (a little goes a long way).

Ever try crystal brand deodorant? It's literally just salt and inhibits bacterial growth when applied after cleaning

After a while I get natural body salts on the hairs of my armpits. And I can’t wash them away.

Some people do legitimately stink though.

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