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Comment by softwaredoug | Hacker News Reader

I'm going to take a different PoV to defend the typers/phone talkers :) They're not bad parents.

A lot of these kinds of things are weekly practices during the work day. Parents have to drive their kids 20-30 minutes to these events. You're usually stuck in a waiting room, trying to just keep your head above water on work stuff you're missing to maintain a career and support your family.

I wish we could revel in every small thing our kids do, but indeed, that's not realistic. Working at home there are _many_ times I wish I could spend with my kids I can't. It's heart crushing.

This kind of article just piles on the guilt. Sometimes we just need to work to earn for our family. We do this so later we can spend dedicated time with our kids another time..

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Thank you. We are constantly guilting parents about everything -- it's tiresome.

A friend of mine was distraught when she decided to stop breast feeding and to move to formula for a host of reasons (pain, difficulties meeting other demands, etc.).

But the media has propagated this meme that using formula is so much worse than breast feeding, when there's no solid evidence that is the case. [1]

Making parents feel terrible about all of these unmet expectations of being the perfect parent is actively harmful for their mental health. Guilt-ridden parents aren't good for anyone. It's the parenting equivalent of young people comparing their lives to the fake lives they see on Instagram -- holding themselves to an impossible standard.

1. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-abo...

Exactly. Weekly ballet practice is very repetitive. Sure it might be nice to watch the first couple times but soon it’s not very interesting. Are you actually going to remember every single one?

It’s much better to have a variety of experiences with kids than to amass sheer quantity of hours. I look back on my childhood and I remember the special things my parents did with me, I don’t count up how many hours they watched my random activities.

> Are you actually going to remember every single one?

You won't, but many kids will remember that single time their parents weren't there for them, or that single time that something did happen that they didn't like. Or that their parent was always bored or checked out whenever they came to events. The solution isn't to pretend kids are okay with anything, it's to be realistic about the trade-offs you choose to make.

The critical thing is to talk to the kid about what can be expected and when.

Let them know when you'll be there and be present when you are. Involve the kid in determining when you'll be there if you can. For the times you can't go, talk to the kid about how it went, what was good/bad, etc, taking the kid's lead if they're not feeling like talking about it.

I played baseball as a kid, age ~8 - 12. My parents sat me down when I signed up and explained that they could not be there for every game but would be there when they could. If there was a game that I specifically wanted them to attend, to let them know ahead of time. They asked me about every game they couldn't attend, were excited if I was, dropped it if I didn't want to talk about it, etc.

There were times I was sad they weren't there (grand slam home run, great plays). There were times when I was happy they weren't there (struck out every at bat on bad pitches, dropped an easy catch, etc). But I knew ahead of time if they'd be there, which was what made it easier for kid-me to understand and deal with.

This was how most of the families did it. The other parents got to know the friends of their kids and would cheer for them, too, which made it a friendly environment.

The situation you described is exactly what I was talking about. It sounds healthy, loving, and happy, while also working around the realities of life and emotions. Sounds like a great arrangement.

I genuinely have no recollection of what my parents did at my baseball games or practice. In general they were loving and very involved as parents, so I'm sure they were watching when I was at bat. But I was just focused on the game.

> You won't, but many kids

I never said all kids, I said many kids.

Key difference between practices and events. Practices are boring, and parents being checked out or plain absent during practice is perfectly fine. Recitals and performances are a big deal.

> You won't, but many kids

I didn't say every kid, I said many kids. Maybe you think it's fine if your parents are checked out, but not all kids do. Why assume and not just treat the kid like a human, ask them how they feel, and go from there? Otherwise you may end up in one of the countless scenarios where the kid harbors lifelong resentment for things the parent thought was perfectly fine to do. If you haven't witnessed such scenarios firsthand, that's lucky for you and your loved ones.

> Sometimes we just need to work to earn for our family.

I think this is situational. If you’re barely scraping by then absolutely. If you’re fairly well off though you’re just working to buy a bigger house, better phone, faster car, etc. To each their own, but for me personally I’ve reduced work to hang out with my kids (and I’m not wealthy by first world standards).

I don’t think there’s any point in guilting people about it though. Just be aware that you often can subsist on less to free up time, if that’s appealing. I think a lot of us just do the thing (9-5 or w/e) because everyone else is and it seems normal.

> If you’re fairly well off though you’re just working to buy a bigger house

I'd settle for just paying off the house I currently own, thanks.

Well if you’re paying it off you don’t really own it do you :)

> I’ve reduced work to hang out with my kids (and I’m not wealthy by first world standards).

Perhaps you have some tips but reducing work is very hard to manage in my experience.

Salaried positions are a crapshoot - many of them like to say they support work-life balance but it rarely turns out that way.

Most employers ( again, IME ) who hire contractors are not looking for anything less than 40 hours/week.

You can set yourself up as a contractor and take the jobs you want, but besides the obvious loss of health insurance and retirement benefits, there's time spent finding customers and the lack of steady pay has its own costs.

I'd love to reduce hours, but I've never found a way to make it work.

> I'd love to reduce hours, but I've never found a way to make it work.

How seriously have you tried? I don’t know you or your situation but often when someone says this they just mean “that sounds nice, but…”. If it’s something you really want, treat it like a job to figure it out. I’m glad I put in the effort and time to work it out. It’s a mix of reducing / eliminating expenses and trying different things. There are so many options once you (and your partner) decide you want it more than a million dollar house etc. The specifics depend on the individual.

Most of the things we collectively (society) spend money on are unnecessary and often even detrimental to contentment. For the things that are necessary, there are often cheaper options. I’m not referring to some kind of new age self help nonsense. Just look how your grandparents or great grandparents lived during the depression.

Budget isn't a problem. I'd happily take a pay cut, my expense are minimal. There just aren't that many employers interested in hiring someone for fewer hours.

> many of them like to say they support work-life balance but it rarely turns out that way

Just work the required number of hours and then stop answering e-mail. Financial security helps with that, because at most they'll let you go for "not being a team player" - these are bad workplaces and you should be happy to leave them.

More likely though, your perceived worth at work will improve because you don't appear insecure about your position.

Or simply don't enroll your kid in these type of events and enjoy a simpler life together. Many parents these days over-schedule themselves and their children, and then wonder why they are stressed and have little quality time together.

It reminds me of a NYT article about how many women at work have baby monitors, just watching their baby, wishing they could be with it, while working. Pretty heartbreaking.

I wouldn't say I'm against capitalism necessarily, but it does seem to have resulted in a situation where a lot of us are kept apart from the things and people we really want to be with.

My comment above was meant as a reply to you.

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