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Comment by stevejb | Hacker News Reader

Guilt trip? I have never felt this ever. I pay a tip proportional to the service. 10% bad, 15% average, 20-25% for very good.

As an American living in Australia, I really do miss tipping. I think that on average the restaurant service here is a lot lower. At most restaurants at the medium level (e.g. $25 hamburgers) you pay in advance, and then a waiter will bring the food to you when its ready. Do you need more water? Get it yourself... Ketchup, you have to ask but it won't be offered. The waiters don't care because they are making good money anyway. The only place you get American style service is at the very high end places.

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As an Australian living in America, the expectation that there will be a person to refill your water cup is pretty uncomfortable. The need to tip is a ridiculous abdication of the responsibility for labour laws to ensure staff a living wage. If you don't like the service at a restaurant, don't go! There are other restaurants that will compete for your custom. If no restaurant is sufficiently servile for your tastes, then your expectations are likely out of step with local culture and how it treats people.

Individual service persons should not be held hostage to your interpretation of their service for their wage. If they're routinely underperforming they'll be sacked.

Thank you, that's wonderful writing.

Adding to this what tipping also does is pit the server against the kitchen and sometimes the house itself in establishments that don’t share tips with the kitchen.

Tipping can still take place. It just doesn’t need to be obligatory. It’s the difference between a culture of servitude vs a culture of service.

The waiters "don't care" about what?! Things you expect from another country's customs? That is a strange way of thinking. And complaining about a country because you have to ask for sauce if you want it sounds so.. entitled.

Although I'd never pay $25 for a burger. (Sydney here)

It is nice getting a servant for just an hour to take care of you. Though culture is of course a factor, sometimes you miss the pleasures of home.

If the biggest downsides to paying workers a living wage you can think of are asking for ketchup and fetching yourself a glass of water at a midrange restaurant... I think that's a fine tradeoff.

I've always found service in restaurants in the US makes me rather uncomfortable - I don't want people acting so servile.

I remember being particularly unhappy about being served breakfast in Houston while I was there for a conference and being referred to as "sir" - I almost asked the waitress to stop but I realised that would probably cause even more problems so I stayed quiet.

So I would reject the idea that the service in US restaurants is somehow fundamentally "better" than elsewhere - it's just different and some of us actually regard that style of service as a negative.

The fact you're tipping 10% for bad service shows the guilt trip is working

If you tip zero it's plausible that you forgot. If you tip low you're sending a message.

25 dollar hamburgers? That sounds so strange.

Could be AUD but that's still $18. Australia has a high COL.

Plus if more of the tip is baked into the price, that's a standard-NYC-fare $15 hamburger with a 20% tip.

Genuine Q: is $25 a lot for a burger in a restaurant (including tax, like in Australia)? I ask because I see burgers in mid range restaurants for $14-$20 here in NYC, and then there's the 8.825% tax. 25 AUD is ~ $18 USD, which seems about right.

It depends on the establishment.

Grilld is a popular mid-range burger chain and their burgers range from AUD $9 to $16.90 (USD $6.60 to $12.40). All advertised retail prices in Australia include 10% GST (good and services tax).

At a more formal restaurant you will likely find a AUD $25 burger but that's about the top end for burger prices.

I was thinking more along the lines of a non-chain establishment like a restaurant, since that's the impression I got from the ancestor comment - they're referring to table service. A burger chain like Shakeshack has burgers in the range of $6-11, pre-tax.

Grilld does do a limited table service. You order at a counter (or on your phone) but orders will be bought to your table. The wait staff will check up on you but if you don't want that there's a stick on each table that you flip over.

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