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Comment by MeinBlutIstBlau | Hacker News Reader

磕頭 is the Chinese word "Kowtow" basically meaning "submission" or "prostrate." Yet For some reason, the fact that the Chinese employed this method of submission on others was okay, but when we use it on the context of China forcing it on Western countries, suddenly it's "racist."

Whether I use the word the Chinese made or the use an English amalgamation of its meaning is irrelevant. There is absolutely nothing even remotely ethnocentric or bigoted in using the word. You are just an easily offended person.

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Crossing into personal attack and nationalistic flamewar is definitely not cool here so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Are you writing in Chinese? No, you weren't. So the question is, what is the intent here? Would you have used the same word if, for example, the context was Brazil? or Russia?

I think a little more self-reflection, rather than defensiveness is in order. Especially because the comment was intended to be helpful, and not a criticism. The original comment was getting downvoted, and I suggested what the reason might be.

I would have. English is a frankenstein language, adopting words from all sorts of different languages. Kowtow means what it means in English, it's a perfectly reasonable word to have used there.

I tried really hard to see if this wasn't the case, but the consensus across the web seems to align with this SO post: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/314900/does-kowt...

IMO, he was being downvoted because this particular instance is just as much a show of kowtowing to the US government as the Chinese government.

The accepted answer reads, "In light of all this, the fuller answer is that because the term is recognisably ethnic, using kowtow instead of (say) grovel does carry some racist overtones, particularly when applied to someone interacting with a person of a different ethnicity."

I call the Russian special forces Spetznaz and the Brazilian yearly festival Car-ni-val. Or when I am happy when bad happens to other people, I have schadenfreude. Did you also know most of English is comprised of loan words from other languages too? Or are you offended too that words like etiquette are actually french?

So yes. I would use a word that the said culture would say themselves.

Yeah, well that's fine and all. But you're also not exactly talking about the ancient Chinese practice of submitting to the Emperor either. There are no Chinese emperors, and kowtow is not a contemporary custom. So, no, you aren't doing what you are saying you are doing. You are using the word to have the meaning it has acquired in Europe and America.

So why is it that when we talk about Western relationships with China the word kowtow comes up so often? What does it add? Why does it suggest itself? Maybe wrestle with that for a while.

This isn't about you.

Would you please not perpetuate flamewars on HN? I understand how the same word can land differently with different people. To the extent that you're making a factual argument, it's fine to make the point.

Unfortunately you also started a flamewar with loaded language and since then have crossed into personal attack and blaming others for what is clearly a co-creation. It's definitely not easy to avoid mixing these things but if we're to have thoughtful discussion, we all need to try.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> kowtow is not a contemporary custom

It's rare as a protocolary practice, but it's still part of the culture.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35553120

> What does it add? Why does it suggest itself?

What do you think it does? No idea where you're going with this.

The intent is to reveal your linguistic hypochondria, which appears to be working very well.

Or just that I'm a little more aware?

https://www.google.com/search?q=news+kowtow+-definition+-mea...

That's a google search. I just filter out definitions, references, and the clothing brand. Now look at it. Sure there are examples of the word kowtow used for other things. But its mostly about China. Because in the context of China, the word just suggests itself. But why? What does it add? What does it subtract. No one here wants to wrestle with that. Instead they get defensive.

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